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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Please help with 8 yr old dd's bed time....

76 replies

unicorn · 25/06/2007 10:26

Always had problems with dd (defiance etc)but
currently beginning to lose the plot because she won't go to bed/sleep without lots of disturbance - including last night keeping her younger brother awake.
She goes to her room after a story and is allowed her own quiet time - but doesn't seem happy to unwind on her own. She won't leave us alone, she is forever coming downstairs or make loads of noise so that we go up to her.
She is often very tired (she is very physical) but doesn't seem to be able to switch off/unwind etc.
We have tried all sorts of approaches, (rewards shouting etc) but nothing really works.
Anyone any ideas..?

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Elasticwoman · 25/06/2007 10:43

What time is she going to bed? Maybe you could negotiate with her over a later bedtime, depending on good behaviour, with having to go back to the old bedtime if she breaks your rules.

Have you tried loss of tv/playstation/computer time next day if she does not stay in own room quietly after bedtime?

dustystar · 25/06/2007 10:52

Does she have a tv or computer in her room?

Also have you tried quite a structured wind down routine like a warm bath and then hot milk and a story with no tv for the hour before bedtime as it can be too stimulating for some children>

sleepycat · 25/06/2007 10:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

unicorn · 25/06/2007 11:00

no tv in her room..
she goes up at 7.30 but is allowed to read/quiet activity until 8.30.. unfortunately she isn't big on quiet activity and is still getting up, making a noise, generally being a pain.
We have done the punishment stuff... nothing ever seems to bother her, and it seems she would rather mess around (causing us loads of grief)
We have tried the relaxing bath wind down too - but she seems to want to keep herself awake, until we go to bed. Last night she was still making a noise at 10!
Her brother is totally different - loves going to bed.

OP posts:

katelyle · 25/06/2007 11:02

I find that both of mine are difficult at bed time on the days when I weaken and let them have screen time after tea.

I have to say that if she's tired and the bed time you've set is reasonable, then maybe it's time to say "OK, it's time for bed now. You can read in bed if you like, but if you make a noise or get up or call us unless it's an emergency, then {insert quite tough punishment of your choice here - mine would be no football club/riding lesson on Saturday}" Then if she does play up, carry the threat through.

But I'm a mean mummy.....!

dustystar · 25/06/2007 11:07

Have you tried a combination of reward and punishment? You could try a token system whereby if she's quiet by 8.30 she gets the highest token amount and then a decraesing amount for each 10-15 mins she is noisy after this time. Then once she passes a cut-off time she starts getting punishments of loss of tv etc the next day. Also if she is very noisy or rude she would get a punishment. She can save her tokens up and spend them on a treat at the weekend.

Also Elastic womens idea of negoiating a later bedtime is a good one. Perhaps let her stay up until 8.00pm if she is quiet in her room when she goes up.

Aloha · 25/06/2007 11:09

I think 7.30 sounds early to me. Why not ask her what she thinks is reasonable?

pointydog · 25/06/2007 11:20

I'd try letting her stay up till 8 and then she has a shorter quiet time in bed. If she doesn't do quiet times, shorten it.

Or give her a choice for 8-8.30 - doing quiet activity downstairs or in her room on condition that she settles at 8.30.

Original poster

unicorn · 25/06/2007 11:28

the reason it's 7.30 (I don't expect her to sleep then- just begin to unwind on her own)is because we generally often want to eat in peace or watch a soap - which is highly unsuitable for her.
She wouldn't stay in another room if we let her stay up either - she would insist on being with us.
If I asked her what she thought reasonable she would want to go to bed when we do... which is not reasonable!

She can't seem to settle herself and is very demanding of our attention (but give her an inch and she takes the proverbial - so read a couple of chapters to her and she gets narky when it is finished- always wanting more)

OP posts:

Aloha · 25/06/2007 11:31

Have you actually asked her though? I mean sat down and said, 'this bedtime thing isn't working - what do you think would be a realistic and sensible time for you to go to bed?'
why not give it a try?

I think at eight, a child is old enough to eat dinner with you. You can tape a soap if you think it's too old for her. IME at some point children do start impinging on your 'adult time' and you have to deal with it.
What time does she wake up? Is she tired in the day?

MamaMaiasaura · 25/06/2007 11:33

unicorn, why dont you all eat together? We eat together around 6-6.30ish. I skip watchng my fav soap and wathc the repeat later on. I read him story and spend some 1 to 1 time, song time and cuddle with him. I persoanly do lie with ds in bed but appreciate not everyone is prepared/able or wanting to do this. I can just leave him without lying with him but enjoy the chill out time.

MamaMaiasaura · 25/06/2007 11:34

does she get 1-1 time with you?

katelyle · 25/06/2007 11:43

I suspect that she's protesting against you "eating in peace and watching a soap" - and I have to say (I'm sorry) that I can see her point. If she's going to bed because it fits in with a timetable rather than because she's tired then she's not going to cooperate.

Can I suggest that you tape the soap, and have dinner together? She's not a baby any more - maybe she needs a bit more grown up time?

3littlefrogs · 25/06/2007 11:52

I would say that 7.30 is too early for an eight yr old - (I am very keen on routines and early bedtimes BTW).

By the age of eight though I think a proper family meal is important. My dd who is just 9, has dinner with the family, goes up at 8, and is in bed by 8.30 and is allowed to read for 10 - 15 minutes or listen to a story cd. She usually falls asleep by 8.45. she gets up at 7.00, and this routine seems to suit her.

Original poster

unicorn · 25/06/2007 11:53

I will ask her (but fairly sure she will say 9 o clock)
The kids are generally knackered and starving after school - so, depending on whether there are any activities, or we have been to the park they have a snack and then tea is usually between 4.30-5.
They generally take turns watching some cbeebies/cbbc, ending with the nightgarden at 7.
me/or dh will take ds up and read to him and get him in bed (he usually will be asleep by 7.30)
dd gets 1-1 story time with the other parent, and then is expected to have quiet time in her room. We say we'll be up at 8.30 to say goodnight - but she is always out of her room,before this...
As I say last night she had gone into ds room and was keeping him from sleeping.

Me and dh don't go to bed late generally anyway during the week (10 is usually the latest) and want some adult time,without having to entertain dd.
Sorry if that sounds harsh - but she is/always has been extremely high maintenance - and we need our sanity break!
DD is awful at getting up in the morning and this is stressful too - so she does need more sleep - it's just knowing how to get her to realise it.

OP posts:

Crazydazy · 25/06/2007 11:59

My daughter is 7 and she is exactly the same - her brother on the other hand is 5 and loves his bed!!!

She doesn't get out of bed but complains incessantly about not being able to get to sleep. The problem we have is that she shares a room with DS although really doesn't disrupt him too much. We let her stay up until 9.00, 8.30 if she wants to read her book.

Agree that you need time out, I am dreading when they both get older and want to stay up late and DP and I will have no time to ourselves!!!

MamaMaiasaura · 25/06/2007 12:01

sorry but 4.30 - 5.00 is quite early for last meal of the day - if she is up at 7 that is still 14 hours without food. Understand the need for adult time but as she gets older you are going to enivetably (sp) end up with less.

Ds was in bed 7.30 asleep by 8 up till about 2 weeks ago. Now is asleep by 8.30pm. He is 7 and at that age they need between 10-11 hours sleep.

She is also waitng a whole hour for you to come and say goodnight - that is a long time for a 8 year old. Sorry but i think perhaps if you give dc a small snack - fruit when they come home and have tea together, bath/cbeebies. Put you ds to bed (guessing he is younger) THen have 1-1 time with your dd then settle her down for the night. It means you miss soaps but i also means you getg at least an hour and a half of relaxed time with your dp and you wont be sorting out dinner then.

Aloha · 25/06/2007 12:02

I don't want this to sound critical but her evenings seem really, really babyish for an eight year old. Does she really watch cbeebies bed time hour at eight?
I think 9pm is not unreasonable tbh - but if she says 9pm you could maybe say well, what about a compromise - ie go up at 8pm or 8.15 and we'll see how you are in the morning. If you get up nicely when I ask, then we might think about 8.30. If you don't go up at 8pm or 8.15pm, then you will have to go to bed earlier.
I suspect she realises you are getting rid of her with her early bedtime so is going to rebel. I do understand, I love 'getting rid' of my two (5 &2) but they don't go to sleep until about 8pm (2) and nearer 8.30-9pm (5) (dd sleeps 11 hours or even more) ds sleeps less.
How old is your ds?

MamaMaiasaura · 25/06/2007 12:03

also I wouldnt give her a choice about bedtime time but say that perhaps as she is getting alittle older she could have a little later bedtime. Explain it is a practice and you want to see how well she does etc.

puddle · 25/06/2007 12:10

I think the problem is you're leaving her to her own devices for too long - an hour is a long time if she's not tired and not good at occupying herself. Could you not do a quiet activity with your dd (a game, crafty stuff, whatever she wants to do) for half an hour 7-7.30 and then one of you reads with her 7.30-8.00. That gives her half an hours reading on her own until lights out.

I think 9.00 bedtime is way too late for an 8 year old when it's school the next day.

Mrbatters · 25/06/2007 12:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aloha · 25/06/2007 12:16

9pm to 7am is 10 hours.

Original poster

unicorn · 25/06/2007 12:21

but she is tired, and is often foul in the morning and a real pain to get up.
ds is 5.
they generally take turns watching a prog each... ending with his nightgarden.

It may be worth putting the food back a bit later - but I have tried this before and they moan or nibble constantly then don't eat their tea properly - also ds really wouldn't last much later.

Basically even though she is 8 she is not good at spending time on her own (ds is) and can't (never has been) able to entertain herself.
I guess we are just exhausted with her, and at night time we want what is best for all of us - sleep for her, and a bit of adult time for us.

OP posts:

poptot · 25/06/2007 12:22

unicorn you could be talking about my dd in fact it too so long for her to get to sleep tonight I ended up pulling her out of bed at 8.15 this morning for school she is shattered! I hear what everyone is saying about routine etc and would take some of the points on board but waht do you do if they just really can't go to sleep like my dd. I don't agree with her staying up later as I know she would be the same regardless of what time she went to bed plus I would never be able to get her up in the morning.

puddle · 25/06/2007 12:24

Unicorn why don't you give her some supper when ds goes up at 7? Sometimes ds sits with me in the kitchen having toast and cocoa while I chat to him/ help with something he's doing and I can be preparing supper for me and dh.

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