Please help with 8 yr old dd's bed time....

[unicorn]

Always had problems with dd (defiance etc)but
currently beginning to lose the plot because she won't go to bed/sleep without lots of disturbance - including last night keeping her younger brother awake.
She goes to her room after a story and is allowed her own quiet time - but doesn't seem happy to unwind on her own. She won't leave us alone, she is forever coming downstairs or make loads of noise so that we go up to her.
She is often very tired (she is very physical) but doesn't seem to be able to switch off/unwind etc.
We have tried all sorts of approaches, (rewards shouting etc) but nothing really works.
Anyone any ideas..?

She was up at 8.05 this morning - despite lots of calls etc... we have to leave at 8.20...
so that was fun (not)

I honestly think if we do give her more time it will still not be enough, we have tried and she still continues to play up.

You can't actually force a child who doesn't want to, to stay in their room, or to go to sleep.

I want her to want to do it!

Unicorn it's not the time, it's what you do with it. Sell it to her as grown up time to do what she wants with you or dh, on the basis that at 8.30 she settles down for the night and does not come down again.

And I would be getting her up at 7.30 if I were you - no idea how you manage to get out of the house in 15 mins!

Don't bother with a ' bed time '.....let her go up when she feels tired....you will probably have up to a week of her going to bed to lare but eventually she will find her natural rhythm....none of my 5 children have ever had an imposed bed time.
She won't leave you alone becsuse she wants to be with you.....

' too late '

Unicorn - I think it is much to early for an average 8yo to be going to bed. She simply will not be tired!

Most 8yo I know (and I know a few since my DD has only just turned 9) go to bed about 8.30 with lights out around 9pm. Some fall asleep at that time, but several of my dd's friends can take until 9.30 to drop off.

I think you should let her stay up an hour later than her brother and you could use this time for some one on one with her - which might very well give her the attention she needs to stop being a pain

too early

My ds is about to turn 8 and goes to bed at 7.30pm on a school night. He falls asleep pretty much right away and sleeps till 6.30ish the next morning. So it's not exceptionally late for a child that age. If he was up till 9pm he'd be useless the next morning.

And all of mine love CBeebies, including 12yo dd1. Apparently it's considered very retro-chic among 12-13yo girls. They sing along and know all the words.

Yes but I think boys tend to sleep easier than girls......they seem to burn off a lot of energy and so seem to sleep better.

hiya, agree with soapbox, the bed time sounds too early,maybe she's just not tired? my 7.5 yr old ds goes upstairs around 8.30 but tinkers about in his room till 9pm (ish.)
also,he has a play outdoors (If not raining) on his bike or with a football after tea. i think the fresh air really helps!

My ds(9) was like this till very recently and now amazingly goes straight to sleep after his story! Nothing has changed at all. Maybe it's developmental.

as I have said she is tired, and by trying to sleep in later in the morning she obviously does needs more sleep.
The problem is she seems to want to fight going to sleep by messing around until late.

She can't (or won't?) unwind by herself - and no matter how much time we give her 1-1 she will still want more.
There seems to be no cut off point with her, we could end up playing with her/unwinding her all night.
She needs to learn to 'chill' on her own.

but how?

Sorry to say it again but why on earth cant she have so 'chill' relaxing time on her own with you?

Perhaps she is tired because she isnt sleeping deeply/well. Anyway I have offered loads of advice but I guess what I am suggesting isnt really what you want to hear.

yes thanks for the advice, as I have said she does have 1-1 time with us - but it's not enough.
No, I guess I'm just an awful mother because I don't believe I should be with her all evening.

We actually begin the chilling time quite early on. What time does the TV go off at? We find we have to have it off by about 6.30 and it stays off till he's asleep.

Some children just need that attention. It's a huge drag. My sister was talking about it at the weekend - her twins basically won't be alone or play without her and mine for some reason (unlikely some of their older siblings were) will play on their own. I don't think it is always how the adults treat them. Sometimes the children just differ.

Our twins are 8. The bed time has varied over the years but it's always better when it's a set time so you know that's it. No way will it be after 9 (although if they're playing with their 18 year old brother in his room and he agrees to put them to bed at 9.30 and there's no school the next day sometimes I'm prepared to agree 9.30). On school days we go up at 8.30pm. This is later than with our first three children. But they will usually play in their room after we've finished the bed time routine. They don't bother me. I suppose the question is why don't they? For some reason they entertain themselves. They eat later now than they used to - sometimes at 7.30pm, sometimes 8pm.

I wake them at 7.30am (school is at the end of the road). I suspect they sleep from 10 - 7.30 which is 9.5 hours, sometimes 10 hours. That is enough for them. One tends to go to sleep before the other.

We've had sleep problems with other children over the years and they are absolutely horrible when it's not working properly.

I agree it's too early, and this it's sad tbh that she's foisted off upstairs and told to be quiet for a whole hour just so you can eat in peace and watch the bloody tele

Really.

I also like my time to myself, and am a stickler for bed time, but at 8 that's far too early. Also think 5 far too early for tea.

My suggestion is (what works for us, my ds is almost 8) snack at 4 then homework. Then they play (outside normally) . Tea is usually 6.30 - 7.30 (absolute latest) we try to eat all together, so later to fit in with daddy coming in, or we'll eat earlier then when daddy gets in the boys sit down and eat dessert - yoghurt or fruit or something - while he has his meal. It's really important we all sit at table for meals together.

Then at 8 they go up, ablute then sometimes we'll play a game like uno or something with them, or they'll have half an hour in bed to read. Lights out 9.

We just changed it to this - before they were going up at 7.30, bed at 8, but we had more and more disturbance, kids talking, getting out of bed. I was reluctant to make bed time later as even with 8pm bed time, difficult to get up in morning, but they've coped fine, but more importantly, it instantly solved the noise at bed time.

I'm sorry, but you're going to have to accept she^s older now and you are going to loose those quiet evenings. Is she going to be sent to bed at 7.30 when she's 10? or 14? I'm sure you see that's not going to work. At some point you're going ot have to do it. Sounds like now's the time.

Have you tried story tapes for quiet time in her room? CAn ve very relaxing

At 8 she's probably starting to feel more grown-up and wants to be treated as such. I wonder if she is aware that you want some time away from her and is reacting by being a pest so that you have to give her attention. She may not want actual attention, just not to be sent away upstairs! I would sit down with her and problem-solve about how to make it better. She might surprise you (mine constantly surprise me when I do this with them and they love being treated as adults) You don't have to agree to anything you really don't think will work, but I think she's more likely to agree to a new strategy if she's been involved in making the decision.
You're right, she probably is really tired if she's been up and down all evening but probably finds it even more difficult to get to sleep because she's been so active. If she goes to bed later but falls asleep more quickly then she may well get more sleep this way.

'foisted upstairs and told to be quiet er that is not what I have said...

I don't understand what the problem about wanting some adult time is... I don't see why I have to wait until 10/11pm to get it.

At 8 year olds most of dd's pals can entertain themselves/ unwind etc but dd doesn't seem able to, and I am trying to help her do so.
I am not a children's entertainer, I believe it is important for her to wind down on her own because as I have already said, she has spent plenty of time with us pre bed, and if we let her she will push boundaries continually.
Sorry if it's not how you do things - but every child is different and if you read my posts you wil have seen that my dd is high maintenance and I need a break from her....
it may be regarded by some as criminal to say that but it is just the truth.

Unicorn your DC sounds like my DD1 who is 6!! But on reading other posters points, I have found this interesting. I too have thought about changes in her routine as she won't go to bed before 8.30 whereas before, lights were out by 8pm latest.

I have been trying to remember when I started to have my meals with my parents and I know for sure it was well before I was 9 years old so I guess, my DD is ready to go to the next phase in her life.

The only thing I find difficult is DH doesn't get home till 7pm so we tend to eat a bit later.

So from reading what others have said, I guess a little snack with us, while we are eating won't hurt her. (She won't eat what we eat, but that's another story!!) Also talking about this change might make her feel more grown up too.

You don't have to wait until 10 or 11pm, but you might have to wait until 8.30pm.
You can't expect to have adult evenings forever. A 12 year old isn't going to go to bed at 7.30 after cbeebies.
At the age of eight my stepdaugher always ate dinner with us. I think it's a bullet you have to bite. At 8.30 you can get a glass of wine and veg until 11pm, if that's what you want.

I'm with ernest and Aloha here. I do think a family meal at least would be a good thing - somewhere between her current tea time and the time you and dh eat - with an after-school snack if necessary. ds eats with us in the evenings and he's 2 (disclaimer: not saying I think everyone can or should do this...)