Naughty Girls School

[typhoonsmum]

Am the mother of a 4 and a half year old who is using her new found indepedence to the upmost.
Have tried the naughty step and other modern day punishments but she just laughs at them. Would call in Supernanny if I knew how but I think she is too much for even her.
A few days ago I remembered the punishment/threat my mum used on me.
THE NAUGHTY GIRLS SCHOOL
It worked for me. My mum even made me speak to the headmistress( my aunty but at the time I didn't know that) and pointed out a big building and said that was the school. I believed her for years.
I tried it the other day and it was fantastic. She was a little angel. She didn't want to go to the school as she'd miss me. ( I was so choked up)
This evening after two hours of telling to go to bed and stop banging about/raiding the fridge/changing into Snow White dresses I told her I'd phoned the school. She didn't believe me. (Every time I've "phoned" I said there was no answer) Tonight I phoned and pretended I got thru. She screamed and cried and went to bed. She was asleep two minutes later.
The thing is I feel so guilty scaring my daughter into behaving. The NGS did me no harm but I feel awful doing this to her but it is the only thing that seems to work.

I think that's bloody horrible, frankly. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And I'm very sorry your mother frightened you like that. It was wrong of her.

This sounds horrible - you describe her as being really scared. I have a SIL who tells her daughter if she does not behave she will put her up for adoption. I find that pretty repulsive and I can't see what you are doing as much different TBH.

You feel guilty so you know it probably isn't the right thing to do, but on the other hand you are obviously at your wits end. I have been revoking treats for my DD and she is beginning to understand that if she doesn't do what I want, I won't do what she wants. It's a hard slog, and I must say the NGS sounds effective, but not one I would use. Although DD1 told DD2 she was going to send her to the jumble sale, which stopped DD2 being a horror!

I hope it won't rebound on you when she has to go to school

Whizz - was thinking the same. What happens when the little gil has to go to real school?

Sounds mean to me, Think I would refer to use a different technique that didn't involve my little one becoming so scared.

TBh if you feel awful doing it then it is probably not the right way to go.

oh come on it doesnt sound that bad.

oh come on it doesnt sound that bad.

She went to bed crying and believing you were sending her to the naughty girls' school to be punished? That's really sad. I'd find some other way to encourage good behaviour and deal with bad, if I were you.

hmmm threatening her with a punishment of a place she has not been with people she does not know with unnamed punishments.

That should get her brain in overdrive coming up with the worst stuff ever for her.

It is an absolutely foul thing to do.

[climbs down from high horse]

On a more practical note what exactly is she doing that is so awful?

its in the OP - overexcited 4 yr old, carries on for 2 hours at bedtime - gets short sharp shock and sleeps.

Instead of threatening her with things that aren't true, shut her bedroom door and tell her you will take a favourite toy and lock it away tomorrow if she gets up again. Then, if she gets up again, take her favourite toy and lock it up all day tomorrow.

It might not make her behave the first time, but the threat of it next time will work, because you will have done it.

I think instead of 2 hours of "telling to go to bed and stop banging about/raiding the fridge/changing into Snow White dresses"
you need to be more proactive about it.

don't even let her get as far as raiding the fridge, or putting on dresses. take her upstairs, get her ready for bed and if she gets up then keep putting her back.

she's 4! and YOU are in charge

What you are doing isn't a short sharp shock though, it is something she could turn into a big deal.

You need to get on top of it and as some have already said stop most of the behaviour before it starts. That probably means being upstairs keeping an eye on her to make sure she is in bed. Bit crap but keep it up and it will probably stop.

Sounds like attention seeking to me i must admit.

OMG!

I can't believe the reaction of you lot. If I had took away her favourie toy as Colditz suggests (which I have done b4) she would still go to bed screaming.
THE SCHOOL DOESN'T EXSIST. SHE WILL NEVER GO THERE. I would not pack my child up to and give her away because she is unruly. What do you think I am.I AM SIX MONTHS PREGNANT AND DO NOT LIKE BEING KICKED BY A FOUR YEAR OLD.
As to stopping her coming downstairs. What do you want me to do. Put CCTV in her room. I will not lock her in that is imprisoning.
Forget I asked any advice.
I am 28 years old when I was younger there were no ASBO's and plenty of NGS. People now are too scared to punish children and they get away with blue murder.

we are not saying that it is bad to send her there but that it is bad to threaten to send her there as it will make her scared and send her off on all kinds of unpleasent thoughts.

I am sorry to hear that you are having a bad time - it is really hard when you are preganant and tired and the child you just want to go to bed is playing up. It sounds like she winds you up and then picks up on it and you are in a cycle of winding each other up. When things escalte is there a way you can get a bit of space from each other? seperate for a few mintues to give you a chance to gather your thoughts?

If you start a thread in behaviour asking for suggestions about mananging this situation you will get lots of support (ranging from sticker charts to pasta pots).

I am sorry things are difficult for you - it sounds like you need a bit of constructive advice more than a telling off.

Best wishes.

Honestly, I think it would be less cruel just to smack her on the bum. (Not that I am in favour of corporal punishment)

There is no doult that four year olds can be testing. I sometimes wonder if parents end up being more cruel with pschyological punishments in their efforts to avoid smacking their children.

I find not allowing my son to watch TV or play on the computer an effective punishment. Sometimes I put him in the bathroom for a couple of minutes of time out.

The problem with empty threats is that kids quickly cotton on that you don't mean it. When a threat is real they don't take you seriously.

Nope, you're right, the school doesn't exist and she will never go there.

NOW GO AND TELL YOUR DAUGHTER THAT - SHE THINKS IT IS REAL. SHE THINKS YOU WILL SEND HER AWAY AND REJECT HER.

Yes, she would still go to bed screaming. But discipline is about solving the long term problem, surely? Not just about scaring the bejesus out of a tiny little girl because you're pissed off with her?

Nobody has mentioned locking her in her room, and I agree that it would be wronmg to do so.

How, may I ask, is it better to set up massive fears in a small child's mind to make her do as you want?

You know that the school doesn't exist, that she will never go there, and that you would never pack her off there or give her away because she is unruly.

She doesn't.

Plus, what happens when it's time to actually start school and she's terrified because she thinks schools are like the one you've described? Children are very literal, and she will take what you say about school very seriously.

There has to be a better way of dealing with this than frightening her. You said yourself that you feel guilty for scaring her into behaving and you feel awful for doing this to her - so it's not an ideal form of punishment.

You say that you've tried punishments for her behaviour, but have you tried doing anything which rewards positive behaviour? Most people respond better to the carrot than the stick. As Dimpled says, maybe something like sticker charts or the pasta jar as a reward system for good behaviour would work better for her.

Can I add that my mother used to discipline through fear - her way of keeping me behaving well was to frighten me into behaving well. But it wasn't her stories that I was frightened of in the end - it was her. I'm sure that's not what she intended, but that's how it ended up, and I would hate for that to happen to you.

I think you are being a bit mean to typhoonsmum,

Im sure alot of us have said things we don't meen as a last resort to get our kids to do as they are told.

I have a 3yo dd who does not respond to time-out, taking toys away, smaked bum (yes i have smaked her bum and she laughed at me so total waste of time)

Sometimes it feels like i would try anything to get her to behave.

I have never told her i would send her away tho,

Typhoonsmum- if it feels wrong then don't do it, i think you are brave to come on here and admit what you do and that you Dd can be hard work, sometimes i feel like calling Super Nanny

It is so easy to say something and then regret it with children.

The other night in the bath, DS1 (3) told a blatant lie, Dh and I spoke to him about Pinocchio (he went to the theatre to see it and loves the book) wanting to highlight how lying was not a good thing. We didn't say that if he lied his nose would grow or anything, just wanted to relate it to something he would understand.

He was checking his nose in the bathroom mirror for ages, kept asking if his nose had "got smaller" now and saying "I can feel my nose growing, stop it Mommy, I'm going to be good now" [sad}

How bad did I feel?

With my son, punishments that are directly linked to the poor behaviour always work best. For example when your daughter was changing into the snow white dress after you had told her not to, I would have confisicated the dress for three days. (ie. kid plays with dress when told not to, kid loses dress)

As far the fridge goes. Can she reach the most desirable foods. What would happen if you bought nothing but healthy food for a couple of days. (She chooses to raid the fridge, no treats like chocolate or biscuits get given to her. She has to show you that she can be trusted before you buy treats)

If my son is good about getting ready for bed he gets 3 stories. If he mucks about he only get one since he has chosen to waste time.

Parenting is never easy. We all get things wrong from time to time. I think programmes like supernanny are very simplistic. I don't think that anyone behaviour can be changed in a week.

I don't think a punishment that you can't carry out will work long term, or even medium term, TBH. She'll figure out you don't mean it soon enough, and then what?

I still think there are better, more effective ways to reward good behaviour and manage bad.

The first post suggested typhoonsmum was either or both offering up the school lie as a bright idea/ feeling guilty about it. She asked for opinions. Lots of people have said they don't think it's a great idea and explained why. What's wrong with that, exactly? It's advice, which is what the OP was seeking.