Utterly exhausted with 2 and 4 year old

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2 year old sleeps terribly. Wakes at 3.30 a few times a week (for good!) and never really later than 5.30. Doesn't go down easily either. He ends up being overtired all day. 4 year old wakes a couple of times a night so between them we never get a proper nights sleep.

They don't play together yet. 4 year old will play happily with Lego, trains etc but 2 year old just breaks it up. I'm too tired to be a 'fun mum' really, too tired to take them to groups as I sometimes feel dizzy with tiredness and they are both bolters and we rely on CBeebies way too much.

I only have them myself 2 days but my partner is out from 7-6 sometimes later. I work 3 days but in a tiring demanding job so just completely exhausted.

4 year old has big meltdowns too over small things and hits me. I think she gets frustrated because we can't do certain things due to younger sibling. We just end up not seeing anyone the two days I have them due to a combination of tiredness and poor behaviour and I know it's a bit crap for them but I feel overwhelmed by exhaustion and how hard it is looking after two pre-schoolers. I feel awful and wishing away the next year until they're at school and pre-school.

I really feel that I'm not giving them the childhood you read about on mummy blogs and after any tips to make life easier. Ways of entertaining them when low on energy.

It sounds like you really need to get them outside, which I know is really hard when you're so tired! But fresh air would do you all so much good and they need to get rid of all their excess energy. Is there a park or woodlands near to you? Somewhere safe they can run around? National trust or something?

Yeah, we do have a park, it's only the dizziness that stops me really and they split up in the playground making it really hard to keep them safe. Trying to keep them together is really hard. I took them to the park for an hour yesterday but my 4 year old had an absolute meltdown when it was time to come home (to try in vain to get 2 year old to nap).

I definitely think fresh air tires them out but sometimes I'm not sure how safe I can keep them if I'm not on the ball. It was much easier with a baby in the pram and toddler! I feel likethi smuggle the hardest phase...

We always have a few trips out each day - library, café but nothing that requires bus rides or having to be somewhere at a certain time. All the classes start at9.30 round here and im still mainlining coffee in my pyjamas then. I just feel like a zombie is in the morning as I haven't had more than 5 hours broken sleep.

• I feel like this must be the hardest phase

I only have one 16month old but 31 weeks pregnant. I have recently discovered a small soft play at. Brewers Fayre nearby. We go once a week, it's contained, you can sit and watch them, and play a coffee with free refills. It is £3 to go in but it's worth every penny.

I had a bolter and a toddler. I only went to places with walls or fences for a year or so.

It does get better. Hang on in there. People who have children who don't run off and/or come back when they are called really don't have a clue!

How are tackling the sleep waking with the 4 year old ? Sleep is what's missing here !! More sleep = happy lovely mummy blog life (it doesn't really exist but life is better with sleep)

Have you tried the sleep clinic for them both with your local health visitor? I found it really helpful

That sounds great Notta. We have similar nearby but it's a small cafe and gets completely rammed! My days off are Thursday and Friday and they seem to be everyone else's! There is definitely stuff to do nearby but I would still be dealing with my 4 year old's tantrums, my overtired emotional 2 year old and my own tiredness. Both kids are scratchy and hair pull when overtired and going anywhere is an ordeal. I took them to a cafe round the corner for lunch on Thursday and my 4 year old hit me and screamed because the 2 year old finished lunch first and she wanted to win. I can't deal with that on 5 hours broken sleep.

Humphrey that's it isn't it! I have friends with similar aged kids but slightly older so 4 year old in s hook now and younger one only 18 mths. But they're not bolters and the little one just hangs close to mum. It makes me feel like I must bedoing something wrong. That mum has so much more energy than me but the kids sleep well and aren't bolters. I live on coffee and ready meals and have put on two stone in two years and have purple bags under my eyes. It's the bolting. My 4 year old was scooting in the park last week and wouldn't stop. I screamed and screamed and my 2 year old does the same. If 4 year old is pottering collecting leaves, 2 year old is running for main road laughing. They are NEVER on the same page.

Pretty, I know sleep is at the heart of this. I feel much more able to deal with behaviour afterward rare good nights sleep so can only imagine what lack of sleep is like for little ones. 2 year old has always been a dreadful sleeper. We try to leave 2 year old but he can climb out of cot now (bed coming next week) and we also live in a flat so want to minimise noise. He's just wide awake at3.30 andvwantsto play but then crashes out at around10 am often. We have tried to get him on schedule. Recently we had him on a 1.30-3 afternoon nap, bed atv7.30 and most nights self settling if he woke. That lasted a few months. With 4 year old, it's toilet, putting duvet back on (we've to get her to do it herself but need to minimise kids waking each other.

School not hook!

You sound exhausted but Have you had your iron levels checked?
Get some floradix to help you in the meantime.
I also agree with getting them out for a bit. Get them running around in the fresh air. Get them home. Park them in front of the tv and have a lie down yourself.
Some activities that worked well when mine were that age -
Garden with magnifying glasses to hunt for insects.
Magazines, scissors, glue
Play doh
Dancing/jumping to music
Jumping on cushions across the carpet and making sure they don't fall into the lava/crocodile infested swamp.

It's very difficult when they can climb out of bed, my ds when through a phase at 2yrs when he would just be wandering round at 3am. We tried everything co-sleeping again, reduced naps, nothing worked. Took him to sleep clinic and their advice was great. Just helped clarify what we were doing right but where we could tweak it so we got more sleep.

Also getting them to play separately in different rooms so there's less fighting

Or winding each other up

Life, just got some floradix actually so hope it will help. The tiredness / poor diet / lack of exercise becomes a vicious circle.

Those are good tips. Sofa cushion soft play is a favourite here and they do get on together with physical play just not small world play, Lego etc.

Pretty, that's what 2 year old was doing at 3.30, wandering round. Had forgotten to shut all other doors. I sleep lightly so hear every waking whereas partner usually sleeps through it t. I Try to do separate room thing but 2 y o genuinely enjoys breaking up 4 year olds Lego creations, train track etc more than anything else (except TV but then 4 y o stops play to watch tv too and god forbid I try to turn it off after half an hour!)

You need to do a mega crackdown on sleep. At 2 your little one can sleep 1-2.30 absolute max then down for the night at 7.15.
If he wakes any earlier than 6 its rapid return back to bed with no interaction at all.
Do a sticker chart for both of them if they stay in bed all night and then they get a kinder egg on a Saturday if the chart is full

Lapin, you're right. We used to do reward charts with 4 year old but they fell by the wayside. 2 y o may have the gro clock transferred to his room too although he might be too young to get it. Might try to drop nap altogether. If he slept 7.30-6 he wouldn't need it but we are in an unhelpful cycle of him being overtired and crashing out in his pram when out due to lack of sleep at night so we can't control it so much.

I would forget the gro clock for the two year old, just say it's dark it's nighttime, sleepy time.....over and over ! And back to bed. We had to put a baby gate on ds's door. He used to sleep on the floor, but grew out of it in a week and got back into bed.

It's a difficult time but it's a phase and they do grow out of it with perseverance

Pretty, we do that, temibding him it's night time but sometimes we're so tired we bring him into our bed. Sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't. Just put safety gate on 2 y o room and he does crash out next to it at around 8 pm, sometimes later. Hoping once we have bed he will retreat back to that but I think cot is hard for him to get back into when exhausted, as he must be.

*Reminding

Sympathies OP. I'm pregnant and have a 2 yr old DS1 and also exhausted. He sleeps through the night fine but wakes between 5.30 and 6 and I'm not sleeping at all at the moment. He's also a bolter. I only have one so it's probably easier for me to deal with the bolting but it still puts me off taking him out a lot. He loves soft play though and we have a huge one 5 mins drive away so that's always a good option for him plus he sleeps in the afternoon still and will do that happily in his buggy so I can get some fresh air in the peace while he sleeps too.
Do they sleep during the day at all

Can you pop the mattress on the floor or take the side off ? Is it because he's cold at night? I would put ds in a fleece onesie and we had to leave him at 3am to cry, it was angry tears but still really hard as like you I was worried about the neighbours and that he was being damaged by letting him cry, but he stopped after a bit and got him into a much better routine.

I was working and totally exhausted, it would have been easier if he had co slept but would just stay awake and wander off !