Pasta jar, star charts, naughty step... NOTHING has ANY effect on dd2 and I DESPAIR

[emkana]

She really winds me up so much and I just don't know what to do anymore! No matter what I try it just has no effect on her. She just will not do as she's told. I started the pasta jar yesterday and was very hopeful but then today when I said "I'll have to take a pasta away from you for that" she just said excitedly "Oh please can I take it out Mum?"

She has odd moments when she'll cry and say "I'll be a good girl now" but two minutes later she's up to something again...

what can I DO, I just hate it that we're permanently at loggerheads!

She's 3.6 btw.

We've had a good few days now, I've been more relaxed and haven't shouted (hooray!) and she's been very very lovely!

On a Sunday she always comes to the shop with me to get the papers and that's always lovely, she takes the money in her little bag and feels so grown up... bless her.

Glad to hear things are going better, now

glad things are better emkana

interesting what you posted about a baby in the house enid - dd2 is 9 months and while dd1 has never displayed any negative behaviour toward dd2, a couple of people have commented that they expect dd1 has had her nose put out of joint by the baby....interesting...

dd1 and i had a lovely time at the weekend "just big girlies" for an hour or 2, but as soon as we were home she was back to her usual tricks again. star charts, positive/negative incentives etc have no effect at all. just a case of riding the storm i guess but it is hard.

9 months often a flshpoint as the new baby is all gorgeous and clever and smiley and wavey - hence older children start to notice...

Hi emkana, that's great news. Well done you re the shouting! It's soooo hard not to shout, but ime it really makes a difference, it doesn't eliminate the naughty behaviour completely but things don't get so heated and you can reason with them with a calm voice and slowly they become calmer too. We have definitely found removing ds completely from the situation after two warnings is also showing results. He gets to calm down in his room and so do we downstairs.

I've also noticed that ds(3.6) is lovely 80% of the time when dd(15mo) is not around and as soon as she's in the room he's naughty to her. I don't think there's alot we can do other than remove the older or younger one from the situation, until the older one learns what's acceptable and what isn't. It's definitely attention seeking jealousy.

Let us know how the week goes for you.

I have a copy of Alfie Kohn's Punished by rewards,it does indeed give a whole new slant on things; not sure how to go about sending it without giving away anonimity, yours, or mine

After looking at Alfie Kohn's site am having doubts about the pasta jar system but can't very well cancel it since I made such a big thing of setting it up it with my dd (3.4yrs). HHmmmm, maybe just quietly stop doing it after a week?
This just serves to remind me that there are many means to the sme end (getting our kids to behave) and that we're all looking for the miracle 'system'.

I have a DS of 2.10 and DD of 4m. Recognise and agree with a lot thats been written. Think rewards are ok if not OTT and fit the situatioin for eg;if DS is good in supermarket fetches what i ask him to, puts things back when i ask and goes to the loo afterwards he gets one go on those horrble sitnride toys. This has 2 advantages it keeps him good in supermarket and he doesn't whine to go on the ride as he knows he will get a go if he is good. Think that is ok.

However do not bribe him with sweets to behave and think that is totally wrong. I don't believe in using food of anykind as reward or punishment. If he is unkind to his sister then he gets one warning after which fave toy is confiscated for 24hrs- any further unkindness resets the clock. I think you need a range of sanctions for a variety of crimes

re the not shouting, that's great, i remember someone advising talk in a quieter voice, which seems to work, if you can rememb er, if they are not listening to you - they have to when you talk quietly..

good to remind myself of that one!

Have been off line for a while but have noticed huge improvement with DD (2.10). Have excluded her from friends for hitting (taken her home after 10 mins) have not shouted and talked to her quietly re behaviour and told her what would happen if she did something. Have varied our routines too so that the weeks are not too filled with activities with friends. She seems to have appreciated being at home (with me!!).
I have also read and put into practice the advice of not expecting a tantrum and treating them as minor irritations to the day rather than the main event of the day!

that's great news onlytheone

Oh I wish I had read this thread sooner - am too tired now to read it all properly, I have just skimmed it - so sorry if I'm repeating/being irrelevant.

Emkana, your dd2 sounds so much like my dd2 (and she has a younger brother too!). Only she is 8.5! Her behaviour is so much better than it was, but she is still hard work and I suspect always will be. Dh and I were talking about her this lunchtime, and I said that it's as if she doesn't have "brakes" - she is seemingly unable to make herself stop and think, "hold on, this isn't such a good idea, if I do this I will get punished" - despite the fact that she is punished, every time without fail!! She gets into trouble a lot at school, mainly for impetuous silly behaviour.

All this sounds very negative, but it's not meant to be. After a lot of anguish and soul-searching dh and I had to learn to let her be herself within limits, and not place such high expectations on her (dd1 in comparison, is an absolute angel - so we try not to compare!!). She has a generous and loving nature and we try to concentrate on that.

The other thing we find is that, whatever she has that she enjoys, she will always want more - sweets, attention etc (again, back to the "no brakes" thing). So whilst some individual attention is good, it was never the answer for us because she would always act up when she had it (over-excitement I think). She is much better at handling it now, but still "overdoes" it when getting one-to-one. She wouldn't miss out on one-to-one, but we didn't (and don't) use it as a "behaviour tool" for want of a better phrase.

Playing to her strengths - she loves to help, so we give her little jobs around the house (feeding the dog and taking her for a walk, making meals, vaccuuming etc). She loves wildlife so we encourage her to watch wildlife programmes, go birdwatching, talk about what she knows about deer, snakes etc. All these things have come with time as she has matured, and I'm sure these are things that you will find your dd2 can do as she gets older and can channel her enthusiasm for life in a more productive way.

I hope this makes sense - too knackered to preview. Just wanted to share what a "hard work" child is like once they get older