People keep telling us our DD is spoiled

[AllTheDwarves]

So, as the title suggests, both sets of grandparents keep telling us our 4yo DD is spoiled because she still throws tantrums if she doesn't get what she wants. I just wondered what other people think constitutes a spoiled child?

She doesn't always get what she wants, by any means, and we imagine it's another delightful pre-school phase she's going through. She's always been quite "fiery."

Some comments have been quite hurtful (unintentionally) and are making me feel like I'm doing something horribly wrong.

Thoughts?

we like to think she is just assertive!
But at what age is "assertive" going to become rude/out of order or even slightly more abusive? (she's kicking and hitting you now at 4).

"But at what age is "assertive" going to become rude/out of order or even slightly more abusive? (she's kicking and hitting you now at 4)."

If she is lashing out because of anxiety/immaturity in handling emotions, quite possibly never. Both my dd and my db have always been very respectful towards their parents, and even more so towards other adults.

The OP has made it clear that she is not "allowing her dd to get away with it", but is doing what she can to handle it. If confiscating toys/giving a stern talking to/naughty step doesn't stop it, it is not clear what else she can do, except riding it out whilst making sure no one is hurt.

I was more of the assertive/stroppy type, rather than anxious and over-emotional, but I also stopped naturally, and at a much earlier age than the anxious children I mentioned earlier. Round about the age of 4 or 5 I realised that I could get a far better outlet for my assertiveness by being mature and helpful and getting to think of myself as grown-up.

I think probably your let it pass mentality is what they have a problem with. They may think you need to be a lot more assertive than letting your daughter do whatever she wants then having a chat about it later.

If both your parents no your partners parents feel so strongly about it they would risk offending you by commenting then I think you should try and see where they might be co I got from rather than being so defensive. Or ask them why they think she is spoiled- they see the behaviour!

Casmama Fri 20-May-16 22:38:36

"I think probably your let it pass mentality is what they have a problem with. They may think you need to be a lot more assertive than letting your daughter do whatever she wants then having a chat about it later."

Where exactly did the OP say that she lets her dd do whatever she wants. I thought I saw her state that she never gives in to her because of tantrumming. Are we reading the same thread?

She has always had a short fuse - but so have her parents! I'm 33 and still like to throw the odd tantrum!

Sorry if I'm way off base here - but is there a chance she's picking up this attitude from you guys? (If you're hot-tempered and don't control your own moods etc? I don't mean that too judgementally, I have issues too sometimes.)

Maybe verbalising or modelling that a bit more could help her learn too. "I'm feeling cross so I'm going to count to 10 now. That's how we can stop feeling angry. I'm really cross but I never ever hit, we don't do that do we?"

Ah yes, my eyes did not deceive me.

Here:

AllTheDwarves Fri 20-May-16 16:51:01

"I should add - she is never given in to. At least not by me anyway!"

and here:

AllTheDwarves Fri 20-May-16 16:48:57

"Usually coupled with some kind of minor punishment ie something taken away - No TV, a favourite toy, no bedtime story etc."

In fact, the OP is doing exactly what other posters are saying they would do because, unlike the OP, they would never tolerate this behaviour.

The suggestion of verbalising is a good one if you have not already tried that, OP. Works really well with some children.

If you read the thread, you'll see that the behaviour posters are picking up on is a result of trying to control a tantrum. In letting it pass and letting her gain control of her own emotions, I am not being passive or ignoring what is going on. It's how I have learned to deal with it and in turn it is what she reacts well too. I don't pat her on the back afterwards and tell her it's ok. She gets a firm talking to and we talk about what has happened and how to stop it happening again. i don't know why I have to keep defending my style of parenting when it is a formula which clearly works because - and I repeat - it gets to that stage so rarely these days. It is the stropping and demanding which has lead to the spoiled comments. I'm not sure at what point I have come across passive about anything. People are nit-picking the parts where they can make themselves feel holier-than-thou. I'd like to spend a day with your children!

I hope you take some comfort from the fact that some of us can read your posts, Dwarves. Of course you are not being passive; as far as I can see you are doing all the right things.
(and if you thought I was saying something different then you really would need to read the thread).

By the sounds of it, this is passing, and if my experience counts for anything your family will soon be going on about what a perfect little girl your dd has always been. Elephants may remember, but grandmothers forget.

See, to me, spoiled = ungrateful

There were 2 rich girls at my school. Both got bought things (stupidly expensive instruments/cars etc as well as the normal designer clothes). One, however, thought that she deserved it because she was a Demi-God and looked down our nose at us. Another was so grateful of everything. You bought her something for £5 and she loved the fact that you'd thought of her rather than disliking it because it was cheap.

I also think it's like PP said upthread. GPs were mostly born in the days of nothing. Now kids have loads of stuff they automatically assume they are spoilt.
(Though my DGM had the take on it that these days kids need computers etc just like in her day all she needed was play clothes and a skipping rope)

Not explaining very well but they could be linking her possessions to her behaviour - if she had no toys she obviously wouldn't be spoilt...

Ignore the GPs. My mum said my ds was spolied in the same day SHE threw a massive tantrum. He is 2, she is 65. Just because they're older doesn't make them right.

I don't think it sounds like spoiling. I agree that the kicking etc is shocking and won't be tolerated at school. However my ds is the same and is fine at school.

corythatwas describes my son perfectly in the description of her db and dd. She also describes to how if you go down that road of punishment you can go too far without making any difference whatsoever.

My ds' outbursts are driven by being highly strung. At 6 he will still have a tantrum before a birthday party, Christmas eve etc because that is how his nerves manifest themselves. Often it plays out over something trivial such as not wanting to wear wellies.

He is also fine at school but can start daily crying in the lead up to the nativity play or something else he can't control. But never at school. Only at home where he is comfortable.

We never had terrible 2s or 3s with him but a lot of this behaviour started in reception and carried on through y1.

Regarding punishment, we do distinguish between a tantrum and aggression.

Between 4 and 5 yo we had a lot of kicking and hitting and now virtually none at age 6.

Nowadays to prevent escalating we have a secret password agreed for a "start over". Sometimes I want to start over as a parent if I know I'm making it worse but don't know how to back down or climb down. More frequently he uses it because he has no way to stop himself other than getting that one word out. If anyone says 'the word' then we always start over/move on/by gones/no grudges. Apologies and consequence discussed once calm.

Hope that helps. Either way you are not alone!

she doesnt sound spoily. I would recommenf laura markham's brill book peacefull parent , calm kids. she's a child psychologist and explains why tantrums happen and gives fab techniques that dont include punishments, for managing tantrums

Ignore people. I bet you are doing a great job and people who make comments need to keep quiet. As a parent we are hard enough on ourselves so tell people to mind their own business

I don't think it wounds like spoiling.

However here you have made comments that sound like you justify the behaviour. "fiery" "assertive" etc. If you're dealing with the behaviour and saying afterwards "well, she is a little fiery isn't she" or "it's good to be assertive in life" then I can see why the GP might think you're not taking it seriously and be concerned that you are "letting her get away with it".

You're not from what you've written here, but if they hear you justifying why she's behaving badly with something that sounds like you're a little proud of her behaviour (which is how it can come across), then I can see why they're commenting.

Witchend does have a point. I found when dealing with dc that an important part of the job was damage limitation: I could not instantly change them but I could subtly signal to other people that I recognised the problem. It's not about failing to appreciate your child: it's about tact, really.

I think it's in how you are dealing with it. She is getting to perform to an audience. Remove her from the scene, tell her sternly 'NO!' and give her time out for 4 mins.

Dear AllTheDwarves, when it comes to parenting, the only person you are accountable to is your child. You are a grown up person and unless you're doing something really horrid, you do not need your parents or PIL to parent you on parenting. Kudos to you for paying attention to and respecting your child's emotions. Your child has got a full right to have those emotions. All she needs to do is to learn how to regulate them and put them under control. For that to happen, she needs her parents' help, not punishment. That does take time and patience, but produces long term results. To boost your parenting confidence, I recommend the same book 'sesame' recommended - Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids. I would also recommend Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. A lot of great tips that work, but, as I said not overnight. Children are not robots that can be programmed. They are real people with feelings and many people including the negative posters here would be surprised with what they could learn from them if they just took time to listen to what they had to say.

twinklemom Tue 24-May-16 18:59:30

"Dear AllTheDwarves, when it comes to parenting, the only person you are accountable to is your child."

Though I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, this is not strictly true. Your child is part of a wider society and as a parent you are accountable to everybody that her behaviour affects. As the parent of a somewhat "lively" child I was very aware of that: I was, in a sense, accountable to the other children who got pushed over if I wasn't quick enough, to the relatives who got their mealtimes disrupted and their conversations disturbed by dd's tantrums, to the other children who were intimidated by her behaviour, to the people whose way we blocked when she threw herself down in the supermarket.

Sometimes I did need to give thought to how I could best reassure these people that I was doing my level best to deal with the problem and did not in any way consider this a desirable trait in dd.

This did not mean that I was a harsh or non-understanding parent to dd. Just that I also took the time to try to understand how people around felt.

"thebestfurchinchilla Tue 24-May-16 14:41:51

I think it's in how you are dealing with it. She is getting to perform to an audience. Remove her from the scene, tell her sternly 'NO!' and give her time out for 4 mins"

If the OP's dd is anything like mine, 4 minutes time out wouldn't even touch the surface. Mine was quite capable of going full tilt for half an hour; my db could easily do an hour. The OP has already told us that she does remove her dd.

This may seem hard to believe but there are children who are so temperamental that once they are tantrumming they don't even notice ordinary disciplinary methods, let alone care. I am fairly sure the dc I have been talking about would not have responded to bribery either (not that anyone ever tried): once they had gone into a tantrum they wanted to tantrum more than they wanted anything else in the world.

My advice would still be "do the best you can and apologise to the rest of the world".

Corythatwas, I understand what you're saying and I fully empathize with you. Maybe I was not clear enough. Of course, parents should always demonstrate politeness and apologize to people affected by the child's outbursts wherever necessary. But they are not obliged to change their parenting ways just because the other party might think they were not "harsh enough". These are young children and they are only learning. They are learning from both parents and the society. We as a society should try to be more considerate, tolerant, and patient as learning is a process and takes a lot of time and effort, and less judgemental towards parents of young children (isn't that how we would like our kids to be?). When you're a parent of a "child to the power of 10", you are already so stressed out that the last thing you need to hear is that your child is spoilt or that you're not good at parenting.

Your daughter sounds absolutely fine OP and you seem to be dealing with everything brilliantly. Don't worry about the GPs; they are being a bit annoying and rude, and not remembering too well. You can either ignore them or challenge them and try to have a real and constructive conversation, if you think that might be interesting.

Cupoftea if you have one 23 month old, you have no idea what you might have to tolerate if you go on to eventually have, for example, three teenagers. Most kids start their tantrums at about 30 months or so in any case, so you won't even have got to the age where they behave like this. Of course not all kids have tantrums, but lots of them do, and parents have to tolerate it.

Kids don't do exactly the same things at school as they do at home, obviously.

The threat of punishment doesn't stop people from behaving badly.

Maybe the people making dumb comments on here will end up turning into the next generation of tutting GPs.