7.5 DS awful behaviour - what help is there?

[tostaky]

DS has always been a challenge and despite excellent results at school, his bad behaviour is always spoiling his/ours/other people's life.

I am not sure what to do anymore. We have been working with the school for so long and his behaviour still deteriorates.

I have tried everything but to no avail.

Has anyone had any experience in seeing a child psychologist? I really feel we need external help. Consequences and withdrawing privileges don't work. Praising don't work. It is as if something was dark/rotten inside him. My other two DSs are absolutely fine which makes me think the problem is not my parenting but his own self.

Having a really really really shitty Mother's Day and I really want to cry.

What sort of 'bad' behaviour is he portraying? Is it only at home or school as well?
Your comment about him having something dark or rotten inside him is worrying, it sounds like you've given up on him already.

It sounds like you are having a hard time. Your description of him is deeply negative. Do you think he picks up on this and behaves as you expect him to?
I'm not a psychologist btw, just didn't want to read and run and also we have our moments here but never felt my DC were dark or rotten; you may be better off with outside help if that is how you feel. Hope your day gets better.

Maybe start by talking to your GP. Here's the NHS page on counselling www.nhs.uk/Conditions/counselling/Pages/Introduction.aspx also has contacts for psychologists.

I saw a NHS child psychologist parents can self refer in our area otherwise it would be through the GP. Had video interaction work with some benefit though in our case I found the psychologist herself difficult to work with. In my experience they tend to focus on basic parenting skills. Child psychotherapist s take a more in depth approach you would have to go private there is a website www.childpsychotherapy.org.uk

I know I am dark but I am realist -
Behaviour: hitting reception children this week, hitting someone in his class who only wanted to help him put away his book, tearing up his duvet cover; fibbing; "stealing" toys from his brothers; generally being moody and awful to be around.

Almost everyday I feel verbally abused by him. I have not looked up at the definition of verbal abuse but the way I feel after he shouts at me and the things he says... It can't be normal.

I love him to bits but I am sorry I sometimes think I'd rather have him dead now than fight all my life for nothing as he will get killed by his reckless behaviour or end up in jail.

He is very bright and super sporty but he is very mean and sly. He bullies his brothers and some other children at school too.

He has always been super moody, had awful tantrums throw-myself-on-the-floor-and-scream kind of thing from 1.5years old (so early). Always mean, cheating, manipulating his brothers, lying to adults (and probably his brothers).

I can see he is different from the other children. When he was six months old I remember joking to a mum that we were already trying for another baby because we had the short straw with this one!
We are a very normal middle class family, we live in a nice area in London (we are not English but that's not an issue). The kids go to a nice local school. We have no problems/no arguments. We have an aupair to help, I dont work.... What more does he want??? We can't spend quality time with our other two sons as he spoils everything. He is a living nightmare.
I know I am harsh but he is awful. Obviously I love him and want to help but I do think I/we need exterior help.
Will look at the links - thanks

Thanks sparttack - did you see the child psychotherapist for behaviour problems as well?

I'm sorry OP but you need to look to yourself for the answers. You wrote this kid off at 6 months old, you say you were 'joking' but actually it's just bloody nasty. He doesn't sound like he ever had much of a chance.
Wishing he was dead indicates to me that you have a problem, a mental health problem that you need to see somebody about. The fact that your other children are 'normal' means nothing. You don't even sound like you like or want him. One of the saddest threads j think I've read on here.

Agree GenX.
I was coming here to edit my post but I can't. I was really angry at DS earlier and yes he is super hard work and yes sometimes I think how easy life would be if he wasn't here and yes sometimes I can't sleep at night because I imagine that if he carries on these awful behaviours he will end up in jail or have a fatal accident.
I do love him but to be fair I can understand why you would think I didn't!
I am sad as well that his behaviour is in the way of our relationships. He is missing out so much because of school detentions or privilege withdrawal at home that I want things to change.
I do realise that DH and I and the teachers are not enough to turn the situation around and that is why I posted in the first place - then I got sidetracked by despair.
Because he is my son, because I love him but also because he is destroying our family life.

Op, it sounds a lot like my dd 7yo. It's so sad to admit, but from about 3yo, I just got nothing 'back' from her. She didn't want to be near me, she defied me, would never wear a coat in winter no matter how much I tried, people would tut at me, but she generally 'complied' well at nursery and school. She'd be a rage at home, rampaging through the house, barely verbal - just roaring and screaming, attacking her siblings.

By the time she started at school, I really knew something wasn't 'right'. After a substantial amount of research, I was absolutely convinced she had ASD/PDA but was really good at masking her symptoms. I self referred to the child psych mentioned by a pp, they couldn't see it, basically blamed the fact that I'd suffered from infertility and lost my first child - I was a little neurotic. I realise now that dds anxiety levels were sky high, and self-harming at only 6yo triggered a refferal to CAHMS. After spending an eternity on waiting lists, dd was diagnosed with high functioning ASD and if PDA was a recognised condition, she'd have that too.

We've really been through the mill, school thought I was off my rocker, so did the community pead who rejected her initially for an ASD assessment. I really do think that if ds is causing such dysfunction in your life (I really do understand, dh and I thought there could be no good outcome for dd if no one could recognise the ASD), then it is worth going to your GP. I'm not at all suggesting your ds has ASD or any other condition, but I feel there is nearly always something underlying such extreme behaviour. You could try posting in the sn threads, or just have a lurk around and see if anything strikes a chord with you. I too come from a naice mc family, so it was very easy for me to be labelled as neurotic, and a bit easy on my kids. But I only have one dc out of 4 to have such challenging behaviours, it's not rocket science!

Hi tostasky hope you had a better evening- no my DS is still a real hand full but reason for seeing child psychotherapist was because I couldn't settle him at nursery. Neither psychologist or psychotherapist were that interested in why I consulted them though they seemed to be more looking at underlying stuff, both times they wanted to see us as a family (I only have one child)
Good luck with it will be thinking of you

Do go to your GP and ask for help. The GP will probably refer you to Children and Families Mental Health (CAMHS) who will do some assessment to find out what the problem is. (Things vary a bit in different areas so I can’t be totally sure.) You may see a clinical psychologist or a developmental paediatritian. You and perhaps the school may be asked to fill in lots of questionnaires covering all kinds of things - I remember one question asking if my DS was spiteful. They may recommend psychotherapy or family therapy, or they may find that the underlying problem is something internal such as autism (which is usually helped with things like social skills therapy and adjusting your communication etc) or ADD. You might also get recommended to go on a parenting course while you are waiting for the referral. Sometimes the courses are poor but sometimes they are helpful, if only to meet other parents with difficult kids!

If your DH is expressing a lot anger in tantrums or in verbal abuse then one book you might find helpful is Explosive Child. It’s good for children who don’t seem to respond to praise/ rewards/ consequences type parenting. And your child doesn’t need to be diagnosed with anything specific, it can work for all sorts of difficult kids!

Your DS’s behaviour could be caused by a lot of things. Try to hang on to the idea that whatever is causing the bad behaviour it isn’t your DS’s fault. Or yours either.

I’m sorry you’re having a hard time.

Thanks it feels good to be understood.