Teacher - monitoring son

[Fedup83]

DS 4 has behavioural issues at school.

We've supported the school over and above what I feel could be expected and as requested took DS to the GP to talk about his behaviour.

The GP read the letter produced by the school (much of it we thought ludicrous) and dismissed it saying he could see no medical reasons for his behaviour other than him being bright and perhaps bored.

Dutifully we pushed for a referral (even though neither GP or DH in fact saw fit).

We've taken it all the way to the consultant and after a very stressful time over six months worrying about it after a second session have been totally discharged. No interventions. No medical issues. This despite a rather intense and quite upsetting 'report' being written by the teacher.

Now we feel the teacher (who insisted on having her say about DS to the consultant in said report) can't let things lie and deal with any behaviour in class.

Behaviour includes pushing and shoving and snatching: and "some" of the incidents are through antagonisation. His behaviour at home can be challenging at times - but has markedly improved over the last six months. Which four year old boy isn't a challenge at times?

She keeps a 'note' of his behaviour in lessons - is this even allowed?

Now we've supported and supported I now feel like the poor kid (who has no medical issue) is being unnecessarily monitored.

I'm absolutely sick now. Advice welcomed.

And if you read the thread properly you will see what we've been up to trying to sort his behaviour at school.

I'm asking for advice.

Yes, but you have made it sound as if having gone to the GP your work is done.

My comment wasn't intended to hurt you and I apologise if it did.

No way did I.

We have done everything asked.

We pushed for a referral and have spent the last six months really worried about the outcome - happily he's absolutely fine.

I just feel upset for him. He mentions other boys acting mean toward him but in the past given what's related to us I've taken with a big pinch of salt.

I suppose I feel that after six months of worry, and getting a happy outcome that the school are still pushing down this 'there's something the matter'.

What if there's nothing the matter and he's a challenging boy?

Do they have a behaviour policy and system for the school and use it for all of the DC? My DD's school has and it is fairly implemented from day 1. Whilst I know that some children presented some issues at the beginning, even from DD's reports I can hear that this has improved rapidly.

Well yes, it does sound like he's "just" a challenging boy from what you've said.

I think my 'top tips' (for whatever they are worth) are to listen, not to blame or shame, have high standards but accept their age, model the behaviour I want to see myself, and praise the behaviour you want to see.

It may be a fresh start is the best thing for everyone - is that an option?

Perhaps he's not happy at school?

I feel now because of all the dealings we've had his behaviour isn't seen as general naughtiness but something 'wrong'.

We came down really hard on last month as he's stolen some little figures. We made him take them back to the teacher who said 'don't worry they all do it.'

I'm sorry but to me stealing is worse than shoving. But because it's not 'just him' it's fine.

I'm sounding off now. I've crossed the line of paranoid. I know.

So. Maybe try for a fresh start with class teacher and HT? Have a meeting where you say that in the absence of an diagnosed additional needs, how does the class teacher plan to manage your DS's behaviour in school? What is the school asking for you to do as parents beyond what you already do? You would like to see a transcript of all behaviour observations on a daily or weekly basis... and see where it goes from there.

I would second the suggestion of a 'behaviour book' that travels between school and home daily, in which all incidents at school are noted, and you log anything relevant at home.

The point is that you have a child who behaves at school in a way that is not yet acceptable in that environment. You admit that he is / has been challenging at home, to the extent that you have changed your working arrangements to be at home with DCs, but by using the strategies you use, you have modified the behaviour at home to a point that you feel is acceptable in your home environment. It may be that your excpectations are different from school or it may be that the very different environment there (different demands, lots of other children with fewer adults etc) causes him to behave very differently. DS was a selective mute - he talked at home, but not at school - so I know how different a child can be in two different places!

Having ruled out SEN as an underlying factor in this challenging behaviour, you are now in the realm of behaviour management - it isn't that 'he has no SEN, so what he is doing is OK', it is 'what he is doing is not OK, what can we do about it, given there is no systematic underlying cause such as SEN?'

Which of your behaviour tools do you think would be workable for DS in the classroom by a class teacher? Could you discuss with the teacher how you could create 'mirror' versions of such a tool in both environments, so that consequences flow from 1 environment to the other, both positively and negatively?

From the teachers point of view, it isn't stealing really in such young children. They are like magpies at this age and they don't always know the difference between stealing and taking something in the classroom.

Pushing and shoving is disruptive and needs correcting. If he isn't responding to correction then that's a concern.

Thank you for the tips.

I am always learning and it's taken me four years to feel I have a 'method' up my sleeve that works.

I just want this underlying 'there's something wrong with him' to stop now. It's not fair on him.

What you say makes sense teacher.

I will ask for the book so that I feel it's less vague. He has got a book but for whatever reason it's not been used.

The school need to deal with this better and they need to stop the shoving and pushing. At this age my ds1 was always getting pushed etc by two boys. The last time I went into school about it I made it clear that I wasn't complaining about the 4/5 year old boys but about the complete incompetence of the staff of preventing it.

Turn the tables on them, you can do all they ask at home but you are not there in school there isn't much you can do.

Ask them what they are doing to break the behaviour cycle. Ask for a written copy of their strategy for dealing with it. And don't back down, they have to take some responsibility too.

Is the teacher not applying the usual classroom consequences for bad behaviour, that would be applied to any other child? What are they? Do they work on him?

Maybe either what the school are saying or what you are interpreting from what they are saying (obviously we can't know this as we don't know exactly what's been said) is that there is something 'wrong' with his behaviour not with you dc per se.

Yes Lunar, the teachers do have to take some responsibility but if op is saying she had to rearrange her working commitments to be at home with her dc in order to 'manage' her son's behaviour then I think this highlights that there are some issues which are beyond the general challenges of a 4 year old.

Many of us have challenging times with dc but it does not require us to give up work to be at home in order to keep things under control. It's the same as a child having 1-1 supervision. It's not possible in a school environment (without a statement).

I'm sorry I don't follow Changed up.

You're right Biscuit. It's vague and we need to sort it.

I don't want to arrange another meeting just yet but I may write a small bit in the book tonight - just saying what the consequences were of the latest pushing, also why DS was upset and what's been working for us.

I may also say that we'd like to know about incidents rather than having 'pushing and shoving' handed to us every few weeks with no frequency.

I also take the point that 1-1 is different to 30-2.

I worry about him and I know that his failings behaviorally are mine - I do try my best though even though I'm not always perfect.

They aren't yours, necessarily, some children are just awkward sods (said affectionately not critically!)

Have you tried a parenting course?

Just to clarify - I didn't leave work to manage DSs behaviour.

I left work as wanted more consistency for them with drop offs and pick ups. Happily I think more stability has improved his behaviour.

He is an awkward sod - exactly like his dad was.

I did when he was a toddler but now I have more time could perhaps again.

I am frightened though to hear that I've gotten things wrong!

My view on it is that behaviour is always communication. IMO if a behaviour can be quickly rectified by behaviour shaping (rewards/ sanctions) then it is probably a misunderstanding of social boundaries. The behaviour shaping teaches a new behaviour/ response to replace the unacceptable one.

If socially unacceptable behaviour can't be fixed easily by these methods then it warrants some functional analysis. Why is your DS displaying this challenging behaviour and what is he trying to communicate? Is it your gut instinct that he is unhappy at school? Maybe this needs looking into really carefully.

I think it would help if the teacher/ staff completed Antecedent/ Behaviour/ Consequence/ Communication charts of his incidents to allow some analysis to take place of what is really going on for DS. This can form the foundation of specific intervention. Just as an example I picked up that my DS was often shoving in lines and not really coping with the fact that he couldn't always be first (lines were first come first served and he is ludicrously competitive). I agreed with the teacher that he would always go at the back of the line and be taught to keep well back. I explained to him that the line just wasn't a competition for him anymore and his place was at the back and he would get a reward at the end of the week for being safely at the back of every line. Problem solved.

There will probably only be a handful of 'triggers' causing lots of problems so a small bit of analysis can make a big difference to overall behaviour.

Re the pushing and shoving - we have been in receipt of lots of accident forms where DS has been hurt in some way. But for some reason I always feel like with him there's a 'par for the course' attitude, which I too have adopted until now.

I totally feel your pain. My DS has been singled out for referrals for behavioural/developmental issues by two settings, yet a vast array of people who know him, who have relevant professional backgrounds, including the manager of a third setting, who is also HT of a SN secondary school, cannot see any of these alleged issues in him. We are jumping through hoops too as we are afraid of the consequences of not agreeing to the referral. Ds is 3.

I totally get why you are feeling victimised. My initial response is to ask what the schools discipline system is like. Do you have golden, red and yellow time, for good, bad and v bad behaviour? What are they doing at the time of the offences. Discipline at the time is required. You should not have to follow it up, and if you do/are then you could be, unknowingly, exacerbating the problem, because, for example, he likes the extra attention.

Does he get plenty of positive affirmation at school?

You should be able to view his file.

Currently we are teaching DS not to retaliate. It is not right that x hit you, nor that you pushed him back. We tell him to say no instead and find an adult to help resolve the problem

Good luck! I hope you get things sorted. Spirited boys often have a hard time as nursery workers / teachers don't have the wherewithal to cope with them.

I can tell from your comments how upset you are. You sound desperate to help your son behave in school and I know how you feel. I am happy you are confident that he has no underlying SEN that's great and like others have Saud it makes it easier to manage his behaviour. You will get on top of this if you work with the school. Just keep on doing what you are doing. He is just 4. Most boys of that age find it hard to adjust to school. You are entitled to see any notes kept on your child. I always tell my boys you can't retaliate even if someone else hits you first. If you do then you both get in big trouble but if you tell the teacher then you will not be punished. It's something he will learn with age. I can imagine how upset you are right now but it will get better. Reward those good days as much as you can. Best wishes x

Fed up, it's true, they are not necessarily your failings. Some children are just a bit more awkward/challenging and it's not all down to your parenting. There are lots of examples of one sibling being more challenging than another even though they have been raised the same. I can understand that it must feel very frustrating to not have exact records of incidents and just wishy washy comments randomly so what you're asking of the teachers (a record of incidents) is very reasonable.

I really hope something gets sorted for you op. You obviously really want to sort this out and help your son and rightly so sound very upset about it all. I wish you all the best in resolving the issues. Xx