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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

DD hit me across the face

100 replies

snottagecheese · 13/09/2015 08:41

So hard that my glasses flew across the room, and it stung for a good 5 minutes afterwards. She is 6.

Just for context: We were at her friend's birthday party and the birthday girl was upset because she wanted to use one of the inflatable microphones that were floating around but there were none free. I suggested to DD (in her ear as the music was quite loud) that since she was eating a bag of crisps, she could hand over the microphone as she had her hands full anyway. She yelled at me to 'stop shouting in her ear' (I wasn't) and some other things (can't remember what - go away, etc), so I took her out into the lobby to talk to her and as we were going out the door caught on her bare foot, so she screamed at me some more and then she clattered me hard across the face.

She is a volatile little girl, it's certainly not the first time she's lashed out, but she's never hit me in the face before and it really shocked and upset me. I know she's feeling wobbly at the moment - she's always up and down emotionally at the start of a new school year and for various reasons particularly so this year. I know she feels bad afterwards, though it takes her a long time to say sorry. She has been prone to outbursts of rage ever since she was tiny, and she's always been very quick to anger . I'm absolutely not soft on her, but neither do I dish out endless punishments because things like banning TV, taking away toys, cancelling play dates etc (or the threat of these things) doesn't work at all. She cannot control or manage her temper, that is a part of her personality, but I am at a loss as to how to deal with it.

I honestly don't know how to deal with the repercussions, like yesterday - I considered taking her away from the party but didn't as her little brother was there having a great time and it wouldn't have been fair on him, but to be honest I don't think this kind of thing would be massively effective in the long term - in the heat of the moment she doesn't care about being punished, and I think she almost wants to be punished because she knows she's behaved badly but can't possibly admit it, but knows a punishment would be justified. I don't think dealing with the fallout of her anger is the answer in the long term, I think the key is to find ways for her to control it at the source, before it explodes into anything. She is only going to get bigger and stronger, and it frightens me to think how this kind of scenario would play out when she's a teenager. I feel teary today, and a bit despairing. Most of the time she's such a lovely girl: sweet, funny, creative, kind - she can be really kind - but her temper is an increasingly significant problem and I don't know what to do about it. Sorry for the long post. If you've got this far, thank you!

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cansu · 13/09/2015 08:46

Tbh I think you should have taken her home. It may not be the answer in the long run but she needs to hear that it isn't tolerable and that there is a consequence even if the consequence is simply time out at home to calm down and reflect. I think you may need to seek some help for her via the GP as it really isn't normal her to be so violent. Does she have any special needs?

Chippednailvarnish · 13/09/2015 08:51

Yup, I would have taken her straight home. It doesn't sound like you have any control over her, it's pointless worrying about how she might behave as a teenager if you don't even discipline her now.

You also seem to be making excuses for her, my DS gets angry but he knows he'd have hell to pay if he hit people. So he might verbally rage but he would never lash out.

LIZS · 13/09/2015 08:53

Yes you should have taken her home and come back later for Ds. Hitting you was unacceptable and needed an immediate consequence. Agree you need to consider what triggers such outbursts. If she felt you were shouting maybe she has sensory issues and all the noise and excitement was too much, or had she eaten something which made her volatile. Does she behave at school , play with her brother and so on.

timeforabrewnow · 13/09/2015 08:58

but to be honest I don't think this kind of thing would be massively effective in the long term

Yes it is effective (or it was with my similarly volatile DS).

She needs to know that that kind of behaviour is not accepted in any way, shape or form. You have to draw a line and stick to it. You can't possibly predict her every mood swing in every situation. She has to learn to control her temper.

Original poster

snottagecheese · 13/09/2015 09:01

cansu, yes, I have been wondering about seeing the GP too. I will make an appointment I think.

Chipped, with respect, it's really not that simple. I do discipline her, but it's not effective in the sense that it doesn't stop the rage. I'm not making excuses for her, I do honestly think the uncontrollable anger is biological and that it needs managing at the source. I'm absolutely not saying that excuses everything, but I think if that can be addressed then there won't be (nearly as m)any scenarios like this one to be dealt with in the first place (if that makes sense).

OP posts:

Original poster

snottagecheese · 13/09/2015 09:07

timeforabrew Yes but how does she learnt to control her temper? That's what I need to find out.

LIZS she doesn't have sensory issues, and she'd only eaten sandwiches, carrot sticks, crisps. She's fine at school, doing well, only complaint her teachers have is that she's not great at sitting still. But she certainly doesn't have ADD/ADHD or anything like that. She has a good relationship with her brother - sometimes they play nicely, sometimes they squabble. She struggled a bit when he was born (she'd just turned 4) but he's 2.5 now and apart from the occasional bout of normal jealousy I don't think that's much of an issue.

OP posts:

bunique · 13/09/2015 09:12

I agree that she should have been taken home - it's reactive but if it happens every time she has an outburst in public she will start to connect A and B and modify her responses. Talk to her about it in a calmer time. It sounds like maybe she displaced her upset/shock at hurting her foot on to you and lashed out. She needs to work with you on appropriate alternatives in response to getting hurt.

Laura Markham at Aha! Parenting has some good stuff on connection, redirection, aggressive behaviour, which might be worth a look.

Chippednailvarnish · 13/09/2015 09:13

uncontrollable anger is biological and that it needs managing at the source

So when she starts hitting her brother what are you going to do? Let her carry on because it's a biological reaction?

Children have completely disproportionate reactions to things, that's the difference between a child (toddlers in particular) and adults, it doesn't mean as adults we allow children to just do what they want "because it's a biological reaction". Would you have let her stay if she had hit a child at the party?

missmakesstuff · 13/09/2015 09:14

I get where you're coming from, our dd is the same in lots of ways. She's always on the go, very physical, and when angry she lashes out, usually at me but sometimes at her baby brother. It's difficult to discipline if taking her home would have affected her brother too, but in your situation I think I would have asked if there was somewhere she could sit quietly whilst the party continued, so she understood she has consequences.
Something we try with dd is acknowledge she is angry and why, then explain why it isn't on. She often won't apologise easily as she'll just go silent, as she knows she's wrong.
Apart from that I do not know the answer! I need to.think up some ideas for another outlet somehow I think. I know when I'm tired I have a short temper but it's shortlived, usually.

Devonicity · 13/09/2015 09:15

If you see the uncontrollable rage as biological at source then I think you've almost made a decision that she can't help it, and I'm not sure that's helpful.

She may not be able to help the rage, but she can choose to control her behaviour. I think that if she can't, you have to impose the control and I agree with previous posters that removing her swiftly and with a brief 'If you hit, we go home' would have been best. Second best (if you couldn't leave your son and come back) would be 'If you hit, you can't be in the room with the other children' and spending the rest of the party in the corridor outside.

Your wording had made me wonder, are there any family issues? As in, do you think she's inherited this uncontrollable rage from someone? Might you be seeing someone else in her behaviour?

RomComPhooey · 13/09/2015 09:16

I'm amazed you let her stay on at the party. Even if I'd had to sit with one of my sons in the lobby or car for the remainder of the party whilst the other one carried on, there would have been consequences. My son walloped me in the face when he was 3 - he went straight into time out and had priveleges withdrawn for the rest of the day. He hasn't done it since and he is 10. I have zero tolerance for physical violence from/towards my children - I suffered it as a child, so there is absolutely no way I'm having it now.

LIZS · 13/09/2015 09:24

She's fine at school, doing well, only complaint her teachers have is that she's not great at sitting still.
That actually suggests to me that she may have some form of Sen or sensory issue. I don't think you can dismiss it yet. Have you tried a Move n sit cushion , does she need to fiddle with something to help her focus, does she get distracted, dislike the noise and bustle at lunchtime? It is possible for children to behave at school but it takes so much effort that the outbursts occur at home instead.

DoreenLethal · 13/09/2015 09:24

I am amazed that you didn't pull her out of the party even to sit there whilst her brother carried on.

Original poster

snottagecheese · 13/09/2015 09:31

Chipped, you're not listening to me! Of course I'm not going to let her hit her brother because 'she can't help it' - the whole reason I started this thread was to see if anyone had any advice about how to help her to STOP behaving like this. Clearly her rage is a problem, whatever its origin, and it needs to be sorted out.

Devonicity- interesting you should say that about it being inherited. I am also very easily angered and so I do know how she feels when she feels that 'red mist' - the difference is that I was never that extreme, and would never have dreamed of hitting my parents, or anyone else for that matter, and I don't think I started feeling really ragey until I was a teenager, by which time I was old enough to be able to manage my feelings and not lash out even if I felt like doing so (not to say I never yelled at my parents, I'm sure I did, but no more than your average teenager I don't think. And again, I was certainly never physical). So for those who think I'm making excuses, I don't think that's quite true, but it is true that I can relate to how she's feeling, which is why I know that kind of anger can be instinctive and not chosen. It's managing it/heading it off that needs to be addressed, because the results - like yesterday - are unacceptable.

OP posts:

Chippednailvarnish · 13/09/2015 09:35

I'll leave you to it OP. You seem to be unable to grasp the idea that if there were real, tangible consequences to your DD's violence, then she might get angry in the future but she won't be hitting an adult "So hard that my glasses flew across the room, and it stung for a good 5 minutes afterwards".
Your choice.

DoreenLethal · 13/09/2015 09:37

It's managing it/heading it off that needs to be addressed, because the results - like yesterday - are unacceptable

Not for her - she gets to smack you round the face AND carry on partying. Win-win.

YouMakeMyDreams · 13/09/2015 09:37

The words that stuck out to me were in the op you said that the threat of punishment doesn't work. Of course it doesn't because it's a threat. You have to carry it through and consistently every single time.
Ds1 is/was equally as quick to fly off the handle and I worried about what would happen when he was a teen. He's 9 now and much much better because I had to be tough on him and carry through every time.

He would have been out that party even if it meant sitting in the car. And I have done it believe me.

Original poster

snottagecheese · 13/09/2015 09:40

Okay, I get it. I'm a shit parent and I know nothing. I'll bow out now.

OP posts:

Tyrannosaurus · 13/09/2015 09:42

What was the consequence of her hitting you this time? What is it normally? Apologies if I've missed it but you say you didn't take her home, but not what you did do.

Emochild · 13/09/2015 09:43

What happens when you do punish her

Does it escalate the situation?

Devonicity · 13/09/2015 09:45

OP Not a shit parent, otherwise you wouldn't be asking for help on here. But maybe a bit under-prepared. Next time, now you've thought about it, you can have a plan and follow through. It may take a while to work, but ime it will work, if you are consistent and firm and make clear you love her but won't accept this behaviour

PotteringAlong · 13/09/2015 09:46

But snot you're not listening to what people are saying! You're actually doing exactly what your daughter is doing; getting radgy and flouncing.

When she hit you, what was the consequence of that?

greengoose · 13/09/2015 09:51

Snot, if you are still there, there is a book called 'The Explosive Child' can't remember who by but if you google or ebay search you will find it. I completely understand what you are going through, please look up the book, it's well respected and gives good advice.

Hoppinggreen · 13/09/2015 09:54

If there are no Sn or other underlying issues then the best way of stopping this behaviour is to have severe consequences for it. In fact even if there are SN you are not doing your daughter any favours by saying it's just biological and she can't help it. If she gets angry sometimes and doesn't hit anyone then clearly she can control it but doesn't with you because she doesn't need to.
No one has said you are a shit parent except you but you came on here because your approach is not working so I suggest you consider some of the advice on here.

GoodtoBetter · 13/09/2015 09:55

Ay, don't go OP. You're not a shit parent. I have a 7 yr old who can also explode and "punishment" like time out doesn't really help that much in that he just rages and screams and bangs things in timeout. But there has to be a consequence, a removal from the situation temporarily, whether that's sitting in the car or the corridor or going home or something. Otherwise it's as if nothing has happened. You have to decide what will be the consequence and make it something proportionate and that you can stick to easily. So, if it's to leave, make sure it's possible to remove her temporarily without taking her brother home (i.e sit in the car for a specific time).
It's really hard but there must be calm, consistent consequences to bad behaviour, that is how she will slowly learn to moderate her response to the red mist. Once she's calm you can discuss it and I agree Laura Markham is good on how to talk to kids about feelings and controlling those feelings, but there MUST be a calm, consistent repsonse to violence that shows that it is not acceptable and has consequences.

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