My nearly 10yr old DS is such a struggle

[SpanishFly]

I'm looking for advice re my DS1, age nearly 10. This is hard to get across in a post, but I'll do my best.

He is very intelligent, he's in the top group of his class at school. The teacher really likes him, and the most he gets any occasional rows for at school is due to chatting now and again when he shouldn't be.

But at home he rarely does as he's asked. I know - what 9yr old does? But we've tried reward charts, removing toys/books/favourite cuddly toy, discussing his actions, had a long discussion with him a week ago etc etc, but inevitably it ultimately ends up with me or DH shouting/screaming at him - partly cause nothing else has worked, partly in sheer frustration.

As an example, the school run this morning. He knows the Thursday routine. He gets up and fully dressed, sorts his hair and teeth, gets himself a snack for break time, and I drop him off at breakfast club at school at 0830. Today he was awake when I went to his room and I told him it was time to get up and "remember it's breakfast club today". I told him I was going to have a quick shower, and he must get up and dressed. OK, he said.

Got out the shower, and he was downstairs eating breakfast and watching TV! So I shouted downstairs to him that I had told him it was breakfast club, and also that he should be getting dressed - quickly! He came upstairs and was wearing only pants. However, he then took a further NINE minutes to put on a polo top, trousers and socks - and that was WITH me chivvying him along!
Then he couldnt find his shoes. So that took another few minutes of faffing around.
Then he couldnt find his wallet for his lunch money, so sat on the floor taking things out his bag one at a time, while I'm sayng "I REALLY need to be at work in a minute, could we be a bit quicker please!" (he was meant to put the lunch money in his bag last night, but I noticed it on the worktop after he went to bed).
I explained again - calmly - that we needed to go, as we should have left 5 mins ago, I'm working etc etc etc.
So he still couldnt find his wallet. He has plenty of zip pockets in his jacket and bag, so I asked him if there was an alternative to using his wallet, and he started to go upstairs to look for another wallet. By this time I have a bursting headache and am about to explode.
I stop him halfway and tell him that he should put the money in a safe place in a zip pocket, cos we're now in such a hurry, and we need to go!!
Then it turns out he hasnt got a snack yet either.
I exploded.

NOW, I know that as an isolated incident is fairly standard, so please dont pick apart this one morning as if it is the only thing - I can assure you I am at the end of my tether. He always seems to know best. Doesnt matter what the instruction is, he'll do it his way, and it causes a battle. It's a constant struggle. The only instruction this morning was get dressed, and remember it's breakfast club. So he does the opposite - eats breakfast without getting dressed. If the instruction is "shoes on", he'll do his hair first.
The norm is that he behaves as if he doesnt give a sh*t about anyone's time but his own. He'd be horrified if he was late for school, but it doesnt seem to matter that I was nearly 20 mins late for work today.
He knows the morning routine - he doesnt even have to do much! - yet a lot of mornings are a real struggle, and we start our days annoyed at each other. I just feel like I'm at the stage where I just dont know what to do any more. It pretty much always gets to the stage where I am screeching at him because nothing else has worked. Then he behaves as if I'm overreacting. He'll apologise at some point, but doesnt always seem to understand what he's apologising for - despite it being thoroughly explained. Ultimately nothing changes long-term anyway.
I've wondered over the years if there's something more to the behaviour, but the teachers have assured me that they dont think so.
So the alternative is that my son just doesnt give a shit about other people's needs and time etc. Fab.

Please help me. I constantly feel like I'm nearly crying and constantly have a headache. I also worry in case he isnt comprehending what's going on, and is just being ground down by us getting cross at him, and thinking we're totally irrational.

He's 9.
You seem to think he is unusual.
I can assure you he isn't.

My dd is 10.... Sounds very familiar.

My nearly 11 yo is exactly the same. I wish I knew a solution

Also my dd 10 is very similar, is a bit of a shock as my older dd has always been orgainsed and a doer.

Have you stolen my 9yo DS?

I wish I knew the answer...behave the same way one morning when you have time and make him late for school (if he would, as you say, be horrified)? I'd certainly ban TV/screens in the morning, either completely or until he is all ready to put his coat on, pick up bag and walk out of the door?

The thing is, it doesn't matter to him if you're late to work. Would it have mattered to you when you were 9 if one of you're parents were late work? I'm not trying to suggest your son is unusually selfish, I think most children struggle to empathise with adult problems because they are so far outside their own sphere of experience.

Can you get him to get everything ready the night before, his bag packed and his clothes laid out for the morning, the he'd have no excuse for not being able to find things. I'd also ban TV in the mornings, it's a massive distraction to getting ready.

Beyond that I'd say pick your battles. I know plenty of adults who can't get themselves out of the house on time. Some people just seem to struggle with organisation and being aware of time, and there doesn't seem to be anything you can do about it, your son may just be one of them. In years to come he'll probably drive his wife up the wall procrastinating rather than getting on with things.

My DS is 9 and I would have made sure he had prepared everything the night before re snacks, lunch money etc although we have parent pay

I tell my DD and DS that if they are not dressed by the time we need to leave the house that they will have to go in their pjs or pants or whatever they are wearing. They know this will happen.

Our mornings are routine and they can not go downstairs to breakfast or watch TV till they are fully dressed with shirts and ties on. I will hide remote

Mine get no rewards for doing anything that they should be doing anyway. They just know they won't be able to watch TV etc.

I have all this in place so I never have to shout at them in the mornings and ruin our day. So our days start peacefully because we do everything in a set pattern, we can do it with our eyes shut which we basically have had to do this week as we are all so tired after the holiday break.
We were actually 5 mins late for school yesterday which never normally happens and that was my fault sleeping through the alarm

Thanks everyone.
To those who have said this is totally normal, I refer back to my comment, that this morning on its own may be fairly standard. I know that. It was just an example. But it's the CONSTANT battle, the CONSTANT issue where he chooses his own thing to do, regardless of what the instruction was that is wearing me down. He always knows best, so he does his own thing, then gets it wrong. And we all fall out.

Re his lunch money, yes, it is usually in his bag the night before, but he chose last night to not carry out that instruction too.

His shoes turned out to be behind his bag, approx 1 foot away from where they "should" be! In other words, his clothes were all laid out, and his bag and shoes were in the same square foot as they are each morning...

And re the TV, I was in the shower, and he had it on when he was eating breakfast on his own (he should have been doing neither of those things!).
We banned it previously in the mornings, and he was told this morning it's banned again because, as you say, it's so distracting.

Norfolkandchance1234 when you say you have it all in place, do you mean that everything is laid out the night before? Everything except his lunch money WAS sorted out the night before - and he was supposed to have put the money in his bag last night, but didnt.
We do everything in a pattern too, but it rarely goes smoothly, despite the expectations etc being clearly explained.

I just cant abide the stress any more. I'm at the stage where I dread the days when I spend lots of time with him cause it'll be a constant battle

That sounds really frustrating. My younger sis was like this and it drove my mum absolutely nuts. She used to get in the shower but then sit down and have a snooze

As pp have said, I don't think it sounds as though he's spectacularly selfish, more that he doesn't really get it yet. I don't think I would have understood at 10 what it ACTUALLY meant if my mum was late for work. Is there any way you can try and explain this to him? Eg, he is presumably embarrassed by being late to school, and relate that feeling to your work?

That being said, I know you are at the end of your tether but you ref shouting/screeching etc in your post a few times. Understandable, but I remember watching my mum doing the same with my sister and it having no bloody effect whatsoever. I think it makes the child think you're just being unreasonable or unfair, which in turn makes them think what they're doing is more ok iyswim? I know that is very easy for me to say though.

Hope things improve for you.

Although it's a pain, get up earlier for a bit and actually supervise him at every step, giving honest praise. Then gradually reduce the supervision when he's learned to faff about less? Think puppy training!

I think people are saying it sounds normal because for a lot of children this age it really is like this. My DS is 10, and he's clever, kind, and nice. But he does things at his own pace, and all I can do is try to organise systems around him to ensure we get out in time. So, like you we have things laid out the night before etc. He will still got to his room, and get distracted by lego or reading a book rather than getting dressed. I try to remember that he's young, and his personality is still developing - but at this age most children are rather selfish by virtue of not really understanding the impact their behaviour has on others rather than out of unkindness.

So, I can tell DS as often as I like that DH and I need to be in work by a certain time and he will nod, but really he doesn't understand it. Because we always ensure he's on time for things I guess he doesn't understand the repercussions of being late? The answer may be to just let him be late and take the consequences, but if you're working that's not really feasible.

OP the thing is all of what you have written is normal, not only how this morning went, but every single last word. You have a 9 year old. A very normal one. Mines a girl. 9 yo girls are exactly like that too. My 7 yo boy is too. Not one word of your post suggests a non standard child. Getting them out the door has to be a military operation otherwise it's a full day's work on its own.

Do the money and snack the night before. No tv or computer before school ever - sanctions for switchingthat on. The only thing he has to do us get dressed.

My kids aren't allowed downstairs until they are dressed on school days - it's THE LAW.

Having different routines on different mornings must make rules harder to enforce, so make the no tv and no going downstairs til you are dressed apply every morning. Keep things simple.

I know it's not just mornings, but work on setting and enforcing those 2 rules as a starting point, as if mornings go better the day goes better.

NINE minutes to put on a polo top, trousers and socks

That seems really quick. My 13 year old takes 17 minutes to put on his underpants.

Do you think they get slower the older they are?

Beinghere maybe :o Thinking about it mine are usually dressed in reverse age order - the nearly 4 year old (who doesn't have to leave the house til 7.50am) is always ready before the 9 yo who has to leave at 6.50. ..

My boys (7 and 3) do sometimes race each other, but 9 yo girl will either start writing/ drawing while half dressed, or get back into bed, or be having a tantrum about socks or something, when I get out of the shower. Mornings are not our stress time but I take it as par for the course she will start dressing when I pop my head around the door after my shower, roll my eyes that she's "stuck" and growl that I'm going downstairs the moment I'm dressed and she'd better get moving now.

Do you need to drive him to school? I mean, could he get there under his own steam as I would be very tempted with an almost 10 year old to say, "right well, I have to go and seeing as you aren't ready, here's a key for the door, lock it behind you when you leave for school."

The other way to do it is to stop chivvying at all except for the getting dressed and if he doesn't have stuff he's meant to have that's his responsibility. At the moment, everything is your responsibility so shift it back to him. If he doesn't have his dinner money, it's not your responsibility, no snack? Not your responsibility. It'll be a few times of hardship for him to get it but he will.

Yep!!! 10 year old here, a girl, but the same.

This morning, we had a similar scenario to yours, but to be honest, I have given up leaving her to do stuff on her own and expecting it to be done - sod the giving them responsibility for themselves - I just haven't got the time, or can cope with the stress levels in the morning (so why do I still get stressed?) I save the responsibility thing for another time.

I put all the clothes out the night before - When I go in and wake her I put them on the bed! She has to be down by 7.00 at the latest.

Most mornings, she comes down, her tie is upstairs, her jumper is upstairs, her shoes in another room, she knows what she needs for goodness sakes!

This morning, she was ages brushing her teeth, after breakfast, I went in and she was unwrapping a new (rather nice), soap dispenser set we had for Christmas, WHY!!??? there is soap on the side of the basin - no sense of urgency! Also this morning she was going in PE kit, she is putting on her shoes and moans about the shorts underneath her jogging bottoms are too tight - I put THREE shorts out on the bed - she chose them, so she takes off her shoes, bottoms and take them off, taking an age to put bottoms, trainers back on, by now our lift is waiting!

We have just got Minecraft for the PS3, so I am using that as an incentive, Maths homework done in record time for 15 minutes play last night and no arguments (yay!).

I think you are supposed to ignore the negatives aren't you?, only reward and accentuate the positives to change behaviour, but it is so difficult, when she was sitting on the middle of the kitchen floor, after taking her shorts off - I shouted 'get a grip for goodness sake' - I am thinking my parenting skills are slightly lacking!

OMG if I stopped the chivvying for mine to get dressed he would still be getting dressed for school on Monday.

I do think that when you say things like we need to leave in 30 minutes they interpret as in 30 minutes I have to start to think about getting dressed or playing XBox, oh look a bird is in the garden.

Mine once got out of his pyjamas got his pants on then 10 minutes later I looked in on him again as it had gone quiet and he had changed back into his pyjamas and had gone to sleep as he felt sleepy and he thought it was night time.

Oh and I have everything in place the night before but it doesn't stop me screaming like a banshee trying to get him to dress himself

My eight year old is exactly the same; he got told off only this morning for dilly dallying.

My now 21 year old was the same too. What worked best for us then was to get up 15 minutes earlier. You know he's going to be slow and make you late, shouting isn't going to change him. Allow time for that in your morning routine.

DS(8) gets up at 7.15 to be out of the door at 8.45, he sort of wanders around at his own pace. It works for us.

You're probably tried, but a few ideas to put the emphasis onto him being more responsible for himself...

Get him to repeat the instruction back to you before either of you carry on with anything.

Instead of telling him things for the second time a few minutes later (I've told you to get dressed, why aren't you dressed?!) Ask him 'what are you MEANT to be doing?' (I'm meant to be getting dressed) 'Good that's right, hurry up them'

And ask if he struggles at school and when says no, tell him you're going to email the teacher for their suggestions then. Mwa haha ahah

Instead of telling him things for the second time a few minutes later (I've told you to get dressed, why aren't you dressed?!) Ask him 'what are you MEANT to be doing?'

I have asked that same question. Unfortunately his answers have been sleeping, playing XBox, or a regular reply is I don't know.

As for asking him to repeat what you have just said I would refer you to a thread I started about dh. He can repeat back exactly what I have said but it just does not have any meaning.