My nearly 10yr old DS is such a struggle

[SpanishFly]

I'm looking for advice re my DS1, age nearly 10. This is hard to get across in a post, but I'll do my best.

He is very intelligent, he's in the top group of his class at school. The teacher really likes him, and the most he gets any occasional rows for at school is due to chatting now and again when he shouldn't be.

But at home he rarely does as he's asked. I know - what 9yr old does? But we've tried reward charts, removing toys/books/favourite cuddly toy, discussing his actions, had a long discussion with him a week ago etc etc, but inevitably it ultimately ends up with me or DH shouting/screaming at him - partly cause nothing else has worked, partly in sheer frustration.

As an example, the school run this morning. He knows the Thursday routine. He gets up and fully dressed, sorts his hair and teeth, gets himself a snack for break time, and I drop him off at breakfast club at school at 0830. Today he was awake when I went to his room and I told him it was time to get up and "remember it's breakfast club today". I told him I was going to have a quick shower, and he must get up and dressed. OK, he said.

Got out the shower, and he was downstairs eating breakfast and watching TV! So I shouted downstairs to him that I had told him it was breakfast club, and also that he should be getting dressed - quickly! He came upstairs and was wearing only pants. However, he then took a further NINE minutes to put on a polo top, trousers and socks - and that was WITH me chivvying him along!
Then he couldnt find his shoes. So that took another few minutes of faffing around.
Then he couldnt find his wallet for his lunch money, so sat on the floor taking things out his bag one at a time, while I'm sayng "I REALLY need to be at work in a minute, could we be a bit quicker please!" (he was meant to put the lunch money in his bag last night, but I noticed it on the worktop after he went to bed).
I explained again - calmly - that we needed to go, as we should have left 5 mins ago, I'm working etc etc etc.
So he still couldnt find his wallet. He has plenty of zip pockets in his jacket and bag, so I asked him if there was an alternative to using his wallet, and he started to go upstairs to look for another wallet. By this time I have a bursting headache and am about to explode.
I stop him halfway and tell him that he should put the money in a safe place in a zip pocket, cos we're now in such a hurry, and we need to go!!
Then it turns out he hasnt got a snack yet either.
I exploded.

NOW, I know that as an isolated incident is fairly standard, so please dont pick apart this one morning as if it is the only thing - I can assure you I am at the end of my tether. He always seems to know best. Doesnt matter what the instruction is, he'll do it his way, and it causes a battle. It's a constant struggle. The only instruction this morning was get dressed, and remember it's breakfast club. So he does the opposite - eats breakfast without getting dressed. If the instruction is "shoes on", he'll do his hair first.
The norm is that he behaves as if he doesnt give a sh*t about anyone's time but his own. He'd be horrified if he was late for school, but it doesnt seem to matter that I was nearly 20 mins late for work today.
He knows the morning routine - he doesnt even have to do much! - yet a lot of mornings are a real struggle, and we start our days annoyed at each other. I just feel like I'm at the stage where I just dont know what to do any more. It pretty much always gets to the stage where I am screeching at him because nothing else has worked. Then he behaves as if I'm overreacting. He'll apologise at some point, but doesnt always seem to understand what he's apologising for - despite it being thoroughly explained. Ultimately nothing changes long-term anyway.
I've wondered over the years if there's something more to the behaviour, but the teachers have assured me that they dont think so.
So the alternative is that my son just doesnt give a shit about other people's needs and time etc. Fab.

Please help me. I constantly feel like I'm nearly crying and constantly have a headache. I also worry in case he isnt comprehending what's going on, and is just being ground down by us getting cross at him, and thinking we're totally irrational.

OOh, I love the idea of suggesting emailing the teacher!!

Enb76 In theory I love the idea of shifting the responsibility to him. The problem being that if he went to school without lunch money, although I know they'd feed him and ask for the money tomorrow, I'd hate the school to think it was ME not giving a toss and not making sure my son has dinner money, iyswim.

My dd is 11 and she is just the same. Although I have to say she is marginally better this term than last term although it is early days yet. As other posters have said I don't think children experience time the same way as adults do. Like wise they don't seem to relate to consequences in the same way as adults do. Trying to be organised the night before is the best solution I have but every now and then I give dd responsibility if she messes up then she has to accept the comsequences

It's just not only about him farting about in the mornings - it goes way deeper than that. But, you know, these posts have made me giggle a lot, and made me focus on some ideas to try (again) to at least make mornings easier.

I have to say, I know shouting doesnt work but when you ask or tell him 427 times to do something, yet he still doesnt, screaming seems the easiest option. I do think I "blame" him a lot, eg "why cant you....?" and "You're going to make me late" which is totally counterproductive

Spanish then just put it in his bag yourself the night before - and a snack (he doesn't get to choose unless he remembers to check and swap in the morning). Pick your battles, as this is causing you huge stress. Save the responsibility and independence skills for later in the day - mornings he has to get dressed and brush teeth and hair.

My 8 year old DS is identical. I get round it by making sure everything is good to go the night before - there's no need to get a snack ready at 8am is there? Or check his wallet etc ? Just do it in the evening

Lay out all clothes. Put toothbrush on side. Use bribery. Remember - it's normal

I have a friend who is dreading next September as her son is going into the 6th form and will be wearing his own clothes to school.
Given that on weekends he chooses his outfit the night before then gets up and changes his mind and takes 3 hours to choose something else shower then dress himself she is thinking he is going to have to get up about 4am in order for him to be ready for school.

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase Thank you - I think you've hit the nail on the head for me. Although the mornings is just one of a long list of shite, it's one that can be made much easier for me. I was working on the theory that he's almost 10, and is very smart and clever, therefore he can be reasonably expected to do some of the things himself. But actually digging my heels in is probably making us all more anxious, ie expecting something to go wrong

I think at this age it is easier to think they should be more caring than they are. But they still see the world from their pov more than any other.
DS wrote in a Christmas card to me 'I hope you also have a nice Christmas' which seemed a bit odd. Then DH opened his card which said 'I hope you have a nice Christmas'. Obviously in DS' world, his parents would open their cards in the order he'd written them!

Slightly against the grain here, but we have found that having the tv on in the morning actually helps with this problem. 13 yo DS comes down for breakfast as is allowed to watch BBC breakfast as he is eating. No changing channels. When the weather woman comes on, he must get upstairs to get into his uniform. It seems to help, and thank god they have the weather on at the same time every morning.
He eats breakfast, and I go for a shower and get myself ready. Although I do call out to ask him if he is actually getting dressed.

All things for school packed and checked the night before.

What I have in place is that their school clothes hang behind their bedroom doors. The night before uniform gets drapped over the back of their chairs. No one goes downstairs till they are properly dressed. It's the law. Otherwise they get an earful. They were told if they didn't get dressed they would go in their pjs to school. They are now always dressed incl buttoning shirts and thing ties.
I do put their snacks in their bags the night before. I make their pack lunches although they really should make their own but I haven't got the time or patience for them to Pfaff around.
They always get a morning hug and a calm mummy who thanks them for getting ready in time.
On Tuesday we were in such a rush my DS put his trainers on by accident and we didn't even notice

It took a while to get to this point believe me. But they get that if they follow a routine and don't piss around life is much easier.

Ps mine always watch TV in the morning, even if it is the BBC news like it this morning, usually it's pop TV though.

MrTumble I like that thought and put far more eloquently than I

waitingon Exactly!!

OP I know you say there are other things, my dd too and school have also flagged up that she can be disorganised and figety. Whilst she isn't in the top groups as per your son, she is extremely articulate, engaged and 'bright' and the school are wondering if there could be an element of Dyspraxia, Dyslexia etc., (no problems with reading).

Are you thinking along these lines?

After the SENCO at school did some basic screening tests, showing a 'mild' risk, we are paying for an assessment by an Educational Psychologist that may or may not come up something.

Everyone who knows her thinks we are mad because she is so switched on but I have to say, sometimes, I do wonder and it wouldn't surprise me.

The shorts thing this morning for example, seemed more of a sensory thing than them being too small - another flag!

If so, then I shall have more guilt thinking that I have been nagging her when it is something she maybe has genuine difficulty with

Hope that will help Spanish - I'd bet it will.

My 9 yo is fairly average academically but can, for example, cook a fairly complicated family meal from a receipe with very minimal supervision. I still don't expect any more than get dressed, try to eat some breakfast and do teeth in the mornings - I put their snacks and drinks in their bags, hold out coats and backpacks for them to get into etc (I never usually baby them, but mornings have their own logic), and that's with constant (spoken) reminders. My 9 and 7 yos have to leave at 6.50 to catch a bus, so 50 mins from first wake up call to walking out the door - it's become a well oiled machine that we could all sleep walk (including the predictable getting distracted, complaints about socks/ suddenly lost shoes or hats and chivvying) as there is no room for leaving late - butwe'vebeen doing it 3.5 years.

Mine wear their own clothes to school too, no uniforms. ..

Min

Many DCs seem to find 9/10 (Y5) confusing.

Home and school expect DCs to suddenly to grow up and be responsible, but the child sees nothing in return.

Sensible schools give Y6's responsibilities, wise parents start letting them go to the shops and/or walk to school. My DDad let my cycle off the estate and go to the village park etc.

9/10 year olds are begining to want these big freedoms, but know in their hearts they aren't ready. Instead small freedoms and choices become stupidly important.

Sometimes this results in tantrums you can unpick the cause of, but a lot of the time it just results in general often subcontious, feet dragging and awkwardness.

Basically they want to grow up, but are scared of growing up.

The sticking plaster is as much choice in the small things in life, what to eat for tea (no not just ice cream), MC D's or KFC after shopping on Sat, sensible negotiation of bed time, screens, walking to the shop on the corner. Letting them have that inconvenient sleep over. Anything that makes them feel slightly in control. and loads and loads of hugs!!!!

The cure, getting older.

One day aged 11 DD2 threw a massive strop about something, when she'd calmed down, she said

"Sorry, that was a massive over reaction."

She's 14 next month and lovely.

I would say 4 mornings out of 5 I have to send DS age10 back upstairs to clean his teeth. TV is supposed to be only when completely ready but if I'm still in the shower when he goes downstairs then it is often put on.

To teach him a bit of empathy about your need to get to work I would play the 'I can faff/dawdle too' card one time when he wants you to take him to a sports club or birthday party (not school!). Misplace your purse/phone/keys, sip a drink really slowly, decide you need a jacket etc. DS got the point although I'm not saying it was embedded.

I have a friend who is dreading next September as her son is going into the 6th form and will be wearing his own clothes to school.

in secondary school leave him to it, if he is late every morning, really honestly his own problem.

My mum was a single parent and had left for work before i got up in the mornings, he should be doing his own stuff by 16.

My DD age 7 also follows the routine. The only problems we have is when they start bickering over stupid things. At which point I turn the TV off immediately, so it has it's benefits.

Just wanting to contribute to the "could it be something else?" part of the discussion.

My DS(13) has mild Dyspraxia, which manifests itself as an inability to understand & follow instructions; major organisational difficulties (e.g. constantly losing possessions, getting lost, forgetting to eat); an apparent lack of empathy (always wanting to do things his way / not understanding others' POV), motor problems (difficulties with cutlery, getting dressed, writing). This is all despite him being extremely intelligent - top set Maths at a grammar school. Does that sound like your DS at all?

I think lots of families have stresses around the getting-up in the morning routine with their DCs, whether they have other issues or not. With DS it has always been a major stress point. We have a military-style operation lasting 1.5 hours, during which time the only things DS has to do are get up and get dressed. I had to give up on him eating breakfast at home, and now he has it at school (fingers crossed!)

You would think that 1.5 hours would be plenty of time for a 13yo to get dressed, but on Monday I had to drive him to school in his PJs, wrapped in his duvet; and every other day this week I have had to physically help him put his clothes on. He's a tall lad, considerably taller than me, so it might seem a bit ridiculous to an outsider, but it's what I need to do in order to get him to school.

If you think your DS might have similar problems, then do ask your GP for a referral.

I had to berate DD repeatedly when she was younger.
My favourite phases at that time were:

Focus!
Try to do this before one of us dies
I don't want to spend the rest of my life having this conversation
Move like you have a purpose
Do what needs doing, NOW!

My friend solved the problem by depositing her boy half dressed in the play ground with no lunch in his bag two days in a row. After that, he got dressed just fine.

Saying you will be late for work isn't a reason that any child recognises as a need for them to hurry - you have to be more inventive. With DD I often said "the energy I'm using to shout at you is energy I won't have left to make pizza this week" (insert favourite food of choice or other incentive that works with your child).

DD is now 11 and can get herself ready for a set time each morning. Only took 5 years of training.

ringing and AmI that's exactly the sort of thing I mean re could there be more to it? And I too worry that he thinks I'm totally irrational and psycho, particularly if he doesn't really comprehend why I'm reacting in that way.

Just a suggestion, but could you give your son a laminated tick list of things he needs to do each morning, in which order and at what time? Especially as, if I've understood it correctly, you have a different routine on certain days? You could give him a wipe-clean marker pen so he can tick off what he's done so far.

We used to have a disaster with DS having a bath, with me having to shout instructions through the locked door. ("Put the plug in the bath. Now switch the taps on. Is there enough water in the bath now? Good, so now switch the taps off" etc) Since putting up a checklist on the bathroom wall, it has helped enormously.

thanks, AmI - funnily enough we were just discussing a similar idea. It means he's still resposible for it all, and being grown up, but forgetfulness doesnt come into play

sigh -if i had a penny gor the amount if times "you haven't got a lot of time comes out of my mouth in the mornings.

the only thing id be doing differently from your op is not giving him a wallet and paying his dinner money in an envelope ot directly to the school. one less thing to lose/faff with

The kids pay the dinner staff at the start of lunch break, so paying in advance isnt an option. We used to be able to pay as much as we liked any time we liked, as they had a credit card type of system. It was so much easier - we'd give him a tenner on a Monday, and that was it paid for over a week.