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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

ds3's life is sad and miserable

24 replies

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 21:38

Background: ds3 (probably) has selective mutism. I'm waiting for an appointment with an Educational Psychologist. He has been under a SALT since he was 2.3 years old.

He is now 3.9 (4 in early Jan). Since the end of the long school holidays he has been wetting himself, occasionally soiling himself although it has to be said that he has never been brilliant with toileting - I only put him in pants at Easter at 3.3 yo.

He opposes EVERYTHING, hits his younger db, shouts and shouts at his older 3 sibs, tells everyone they are stoopid, cries when I ask him to do something, cries and drops to the floor if I ask him to put his pants/trousers, vest, t-shirt on. Everyhting is a battle, everyhting is too much trouble and he always says "I too tired" to everyhting.

He gets distressed if anyone does ANYTHING he doesn't like, even if they are quietly reading a book he shouts and shouts at them to stop it. If he is refused something he will repeat relentlessly "I want xxxx, I want xxxx, I want xxxx" for half an hour non-stop.

I have been using the mat by the front door as time out space and insisted he stay there for 3 mins. He throws anything within sight and SCREAMS for up to 40 minutes at a time.

I have been really good and not given in as I know he needs to learn. BUT he is not getting better after 3 weeks now of this relentless behaviour which has got steadily worse since the summer hols.

Am I missing something or is he just a stubborn so and so. Pruni, where are you?

I am getting to the end of my tether now and twice he has had me in tears and I feel I need a bit of help.

OP posts:

Original poster

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 21:55

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PanicPants · 14/10/2006 21:57

Is he in nursery? What do they suggest?

BudaBeast · 14/10/2006 21:57

Poor you - sounds awful - no advic though just wanted to bump for you.

Jimjams2 · 14/10/2006 22:01

TBH I think you need to see someone other than an Ed psych (to rule stuff out). He sounds like a complex little boy and I think an Ed psych could easily be out of their depth. Could you ask for a referral to a developmental paed or clinical psych instead?

I'm not sure I'd carry on using the time out mat given the response - if it's just making things worse then I'd try something else.

Pick your battles really carefully- even if it means that for the moment he has different rules than his siblings. RE the throwing on the floor thing - ds3 has this down to a tee- headbanging, charging on the floor (he copies his autistic brother so he's had a good teacher) flinging things aorund. I've found the best response with him is to just walk away. He normally gets up and follows me then.

Original poster

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 22:02

He is at nursery every morning. They too have had problems with him hitting other children, wetting and last friday, soiling. He will not speak to any adults other than his keyworker - he is currently funded for 4 hours of one-to-one help per week.

I have felt that the speech/mutism thing was all tied up with his behaviour probs but I'm not so sure any more as he talks (although unclearly) with confidence at home - it's just adults outside of the home he won't talk to.

It is making life miserable for everyone, but he just seems to spend his life crying and lurching from one upset to another. He seems to be a very unhappy little boy and it's killing me.

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Jimjams2 · 14/10/2006 22:03

oh for getting dressed etc - hold out something he really really likes- when he reaches for it pull it away and hide behond you back and say "dressed first then X". I do this with ds1 when he won't get dressed. (he's aged 7 so I can't battle with him anymore). If it's something he really wants he does it right away.

PanicPants · 14/10/2006 22:04

Ahhh poor little man, does he respond to cuddles and praise from you?

vitomum · 14/10/2006 22:05

how sad for you all queenevil. Are there any things that he does like?

Original poster

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 22:06

Jimjams - the CDC/senior SALT have said they don't know how to help hence their referral to an Ed Psych.

I've just remembered the other SALT has said she will refer him to see a paed. What will they be wanting to rule out?

I have often wonder very mild autism????? He hates change and unless we "prep" him well in advance he goes ballistic. He likes people to do things cerrtain ways and if they don't comply, he goes ballistic. If he doesn't want to do something, he goes ballistic. Are you spotting a pattern here?

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Tiggiwinkle · 14/10/2006 22:07

I would definitely agree with jimjams here QE-I think an assessment of your DS would be beneficial to try and find out what is going on. You could have a word with your GP and ask for a referral.

Tiggiwinkle · 14/10/2006 22:09

Sorry-cross posted! My DS has Aspergers and has always been very reluctant to talk to adults outside the family. The other things you mention are familiar as well.

Original poster

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 22:10

Jimjams - tried all those distraction/ dangling carrot tricks He will simply screams for half an hour. I now start getting him dressed at least half an hour before we need to go. I lay his pants/trousers on the floor and walk out of the room as he won't do it with me standing there. He's usually done it by the time I come back in 2-3 mins later.

He hates praise - he recently got his duckling 1 and when I showed him the certificate and said how brilliant he was, he threw himself on the floor screaming as if i had just held up a severed head.

btw that's reminded me - he always tries to hit his swim teacher as he hates anyone near him or touching him. He will rarely come for cuddles and is not very affectionate. Sometimes, we get one but not often.

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Jimjams2 · 14/10/2006 22:13

Definitely needs to see a pead.

There's a 101 things to rule out, yes autism, but also various language disorders, or sensory disorders, even things like having over stretchy tendons can cause all sorts of problems, also hearing loss, visual problems etc. I really think a paed would be best. I didn't read your post and think "oh he's autistic" (and I do sometimes think that when I read posts on here). I thought "oh he sounds a bit like ds3 behaviour wise" (who definitely isn't autistic), but given the selective mutism and difficutlies with toiletting I think it would be worth getting a thorough assessment.

What you don't want is people saying he has behavioural difficulties if he actually has something developmental going on- as they need to be approached very differently.

Original poster

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 22:13

Tiggiewinkle - I have mentioned autism/aspergers in passing to p/g and to the SALT - they have dismissed it. Which also reminds me - from a young baby he would put things into lines. His fave for this was his cars, he still does that now. He used to take the shopping out of the bags and line things up every different way possible - side by side, end to end etc.

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Jimjams2 · 14/10/2006 22:15

dyspraxia? Can go with not being keen to be watched doing something. "performs better when not watched" That's quite common btw, but worth mentioning at an assessment.

Jimjams2 · 14/10/2006 22:16

I was told by several professionals that ds1 "defintiely isn't" autistic (he is, he;s severe- never lined anything up though ). Which dooesn't mean to say that your ds is, but if you still have concerns keep pushing even if they're dismissed. I never really lost my concerns about autism (desppite being told that he definitely wasn't by several people) but still ended up going off on completely the wrong tangent for ages.

Tiggiwinkle · 14/10/2006 22:19

Well, as I said a lot of what you have described sounds very familiar to me! Tha SALT should not have ruled anything in or out-they cannot diagnose autism! As jimjams said, a referral to a paed is deinitely needed-insist on one!

Original poster

QueenEvil · 14/10/2006 22:34

Does him constantly sayign "i too tired" ring any bells? He generally sleeps well all night although can wake any time from 6.30 and I ensure he lies on the sofa for an hour each day even though he doesn't actually sleep. Bed is 7pm.

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Jimjams2 · 14/10/2006 23:17

dyspraxia, loose tendons etc.

Really in your shoes I'd push for a proper assessment (NOT from an ed psych). There could be lots of reasons but with proper assessment you're in a position to help.

Tiggiwinkle · 14/10/2006 23:29

There are lots of conditions within the autistic spectrum which overlap (dyspraxia, aspergers, dyslexia etc). Only an expert in the field can diagnose which if any apply.

merlotmama · 15/10/2006 00:07

Or, to clarify what Tiggywinkle has just said, if you have an Autism Spectrum Disorder, you are more likely to have dyslexia or dyspraxia - or, indeed ADHD or Tourettes - than someone who isn't on the Spectrum.

This is 'co-morbidity'.

Jimjams2 · 15/10/2006 00:17

or you can have bits of everything and not meet the criteria for diiagnosis for any! I call that "spectrummy".

CristinaTheAstonishing · 15/10/2006 01:42

In the US they talk a lot about Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I don't know if it's a "real" diagnosis, but there may be some ideas about management on such sites.

Original poster

QueenEvil · 15/10/2006 12:45

"spectrummy"!! I like that jimjams. Partly why I find him soooo frustrating is that he doesn't "fit" anything specifically but I know there is something. Thing is, if there is no definitive dx then it's so hard to get extra help.

I keep wondering about the cord being round his neck at birth. Could this have caused anything?

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