Really need help 8yr old dd discipline

[doodleloo]

I have some behaviour issues with dd, insolence and chat back, being unpleasant to her brother, excessive negativity / complaining are the main ones.
Our repertoire of dealing with this has been timeout mostly but this doesn't seem to affect her now. During the week she doesn't have tv or computer time, so I can't threaten to take this away!
Last time she was nasty to her brother I told her to go to her room ( and come back when she will be nice) and she just said no, and refused to go. This had now happened a couple of times and both times I ended up physically hauling her into her room. I'm not proud of this and it instinctively feels really wrong.

Does anyone have any ideas to help me? If I ask her to go to her room and she downright refuses, screaming NO in my face, what can I do?

With 123 magic there is a strategy where if the child refuses to go into time out and is too old for you to actually place them in the usual time out place then you move away from them ie leave them alone in the room they are already in and go off and do something else. I'm not sure how well or would work but I guess it would achieve the child having time alone to think about what they have done. My 6 year old generally refuses to go to her room at first but she is still young enough for me to lead her there.

Thanks Lindy. I'll read 123 magic. I guess the problem with leaving the room is she is then disrupting me and her 2 siblings. Maybe that's my only choice though.

Also I find the hurtful words hard to accept. She tells us she hates us and told me to die the other day :-(

It sounds from your post a little bit as if you are waiting for the bad behaviour and then punishing it which is creating a negative cycle. I would ignore the bad behaviour as far as possible. Obviously she cannot be allowed to hit or damage property etc. but I would either completely ignore cheek or backchat or say "I won't listen to you when you speak to me like that" and walk away.

I would praise every little bit of good behaviour even things like standing nicely, fetching something for you, letting ds get a word in and be quite "over the top about it". I would create situations where she can help you and "earn praise". She doesn't hate you or wish you would die she is just feeling hurt and frustrated and wants to hurt back and at the moment these are the best words she knows for doing this. Is her behaviour in school ok? Is everything else in her life ok ie friendships, family relationships.

Agree with Eva. Sounds like she is enjoying the attention.

Thanks Eva. I guess you are right, I did a parenting course and they said to ignore the bad behavior and punish the really bad with time out. I just thought shouting and screaming and telling me and her brother to die falls under the category of really bad behavior! Although perhaps it's just attention seeking and should be ignored.
Shouldn't she at least be told though, that's its unacceptable to talk like that to people? Or just completely ignore?
She is really good at school, teachers think she is great.
She does have good friends but to he honest on playdate a I can hear her being mean and controlling to them Sometimes, if they dont want to play the way that she wants, it's her way or the highway.
What if she's horrible to her friends too? Still ignore?

I find parenting her so hard.

Imo time out leaves a child feeling alone and isolated at a time when they're expressing their need for help through their bad behaviour.

Try a different tack. Can you spend some time with her one on one?

Screaming at you and her brother to die - she sounds very distressed.

I'm also perplexed by "just" attention seeking. After food and shelter, kids need attention. If she's asking for it, doesn't she need some more?

She probably does get a hard time, I run a business and am taking a degree and have 3dcs her being oldest she is probably expected to get on with it the most. She plays really beautifully in her own but maybe when she behaves badly it's her way of getting attention.
I have no family, childcare or support so one on one time has been hard but I must find a way to do it, perhaps on the weekend when dp is around.

I think she would light up. Plan a special time together to reconnect and remember what you love about her. I hope you enjoy it too.

Thank you. You are right rootypig she needs more from me than she is getting.

Hugs family life is so demanding. Make sure you get time just for you too. You, alone, I mean!

At this age they need a fair bit of attention, IMO!

She's not having her needs met by the sounds of it. What are her needs? Why is she so angry? What can you do to help sort things out?

Doodle, I really feel your pain - I could have written your OP.

DD is 8 and can be so very negative about everything at home - insolent, defiant, aggressive, no patience, tantrums and whinging and just a nightmare to deal with. on the other hand everyone else seems to think she is amazing - she is doing really well at school - academically and socially, and I get loads of compliments on her manners etc. So I know we are doing something right, but it is so hard to deal with her at home. today for instance she deliberately put toothpaste in her brothers hair when they were getting ready for bed. After a difficult day DH bawled her out and put her on the naughty step - then she started saying she wished she was dead and actually starting biting and hitting herself.

She is seeing a counsellor at school which is helping - even though she is doing well at school they have been really supportive and taken it all very seriously - maybe you could speak to someone at school who can help her to deal with her anger/negativity? It can really help to have a neutral party that she can confide in.

Is she the eldest/middle? DD has recently admitted she resents her brother being born - after 4 years!

sorry for ranting on - I just want to let you know you are not the only one. I've been thinking it could be hormones - could they be in very early stages of puberty?

I'll be following this thread too to see if anyone else has advice. in the meantime chin up, I find wine helps!

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It's turned my relationship with my daughter around.