Help needed

[Stressedmum04]

I need help and advice in regards to my almost 17 year old son.:( he's angry, very, very violent, abusive, dis-respectful...he steals, swears, smokes, drink, smokes dope and generally has no respect and thinks the world owes him a favour...
He's always been hard work but since October when he decided to go into school and just leave!...he has been a nightmare.:(
His best/worst behaviour was an argument over him stealing money from me while I was at work...things escalated over 24 hours and several episides of shouting, swearing, holes punched in walls later...I smacked him...hard in the mouth. He then sprayed deodorant at me and in my face and then...LIT IT!!!!.:(
I'm ashamed to say he is my son. I want him to leave my home as I have little children in the house who are obviously at some point going to hear his behaviour...but I have no one to give him to as I can't (as a mother) put him out with no where to go. He was supposed to be joining the army along with his older brother (I encouraged this as I thought he would benefit from good male role models and he might come back a better person) he has now changed his mind...
I seriously don't know what to do with him. He makes me sad, ashamed and most of all I worry what is going to become of him...
I need some advice on what to do.:(

Oh that's such a horrible situation, I'm sorry you're found through this. If I can give one piece of advice, it would be to not get police involved if at all possible as there's no going back from that. Can you start injecting some positivity into his life? Give him some self worth? Tell him you'd like to help him find a job and a flat. He's in a rut and needs help to get out. Is there a dp involved or can you ask the older brother for help to kick his arse into gear?

I'm inexperienced with this but couldn't read and run. I am sorry it has come to this.

There is already so much conflict it seems to me you need to detach to preserve your own sanity and well-being. You can't live in a state of siege. Your younger DCs are not going to stay oblivious to your eldest's behaviour. Counselling won't help if DS isn't interested. Whatever started this it's escalated to the point you have to think of the rest of the family.

I can't (as a mother) put him out with no where to go.

Now it has descended to the physical I don't think there's an alternative. You can't forcibly change his behaviour, only your reaction. And this has gone beyond farming DS out to other family members or negotiating strategies.

If it comes out that you hit him - whatever the provocation - you risk having your younger DCs removed.

To me it makes sense to let him go to stay somewhere neutral like a hostel. You can keep tabs on him from a safe distance. You are not abandoning him.

Have you told anyone else, have you seen your GP if you are struggling with depression?

Sorry, not your eldest, you said his older brother's in the army.

Hi.
Mega sympathy over this problem. I think you need to see your doctor to see if there is any help of the anger management variety available. I suspect part of the reason for your son's anger is low self esteem - he must be wondering where his life is going.

I also think perhaps a bit of tough love is called for - it is your house, and you make the rules. Don't let him drink or smoke at home. Tell him that if he is aggressive towards you, you will involve the police - it's still assault, even though he is your son. Assure him (because he needs assurance too) that you really do love him, but that the situation cannot continue - ask him what he would suggest, and what he would do if he were you - this might spark a conversation where you can find out some of the reasons for his behaviour.

Why did he steal the money? Everyone needs some money, so maybe there are chores your son could do to earn himself some extra. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that having a row with your son that comes to blows is never going to end well. Apologise to him for hitting him - admit that it is totally unacceptable behaviour, because even though he looks big and tough, he is still a kid and you are the responsible adult.

I assume you buy his deodorant - so get a stick or roll on, and tell him he needs to prove his responsibility before he can have a spray deodorant if he is going to set light to it. (This conversation needs to be separate from your apology - no good saying I am sorry but here is a list of all the stuff you need to be sorry for.). And above all, keep lines of communication open - you son probably feels the whole world is against him, so you need to show him that even though some of his behaviour is totally unacceptable, you are still there for him. I don't underestimate the difficulty of the task facing you, nor the enormous amounts of patience you will require, but this situation didn't arise overnight, and I fear it will take quite a while to resolve. So, little by little - and hang on to the positives, even if it's only the fact that he is still talking to you.

Very best of luck!

Thank you all for your advice.:)
There are an awful lot of issues here and yes I was in the wrong for smacking my son in the mouth...but to be spoken to with such vulgarity is beyond comprehension when all I've ever done is love and provide for my children...
I did, even after all he has done, apologise for hitting him and all I got was abuse in return. I have told him I love him but to be honest, i really don't like him...
Yes, that may sound nasty but sadly, that's how I feel.:(
I'm not in a financial position to be helping him set up a flat for him self either with deposits etc and as he doesn't have a steady job (I got him a little job distributing flyers for a friends business, he earns £75 a week if he turns up.3 hours a day, mon-fri)

So...I've tried the sitting down and talking, using the little ones as an example...ie. he was brought up in a loving, peaceful, non violent home, so they're not being brought up like that... All I get is ' I don't care'...'so' 'f@@@ off you fat slag...I can't give him advice or tell him what to do as I was a teen mum etc, etc...
I don't involve my older son in the dramas as he has been training and waiting to join the marines for 4 years but decided as they were not taking on at the moment, to join the army instead and hopefully transfer....so I don't want him knowing as he would most likely give the boy a good hiding...the that won't solve anything (yeah, hypocritical as I slapped him) but he would prob get charged and end up with a criminal record!...
I have taken him to the police station for a 'talking to' but realistically, unless I want to criminalise my own child, then he knows just as much as I do that they can't do anything...the trouble is...No respect,
I can't enforce discipline coz he laughs at me...
I took his phone off him, so he smashed mine... I could go on but to be honest, admitting what he's like is embarrassing.
As for him being depressed and feeling low...I think that's more me.:( he lives the life of riley...
he obviously needs a focus in his life, hence me pushing for army but he thinks he can bum around, smoke and drink whenever (not in my home, no.) he makes my life a misery.
So? Does anybody want a teenage boy to look after, give me him back once he's nice again...:) as I'm optimistic that one day he will say 'sorry mum'...but not sure of the only way he'll learn is through some 'tough love'
Any ideas people?.x

It certainly doesn't sound like he's living the life of Riley! His home life obviously isn't a nice environment for him either. No school or work... Where's he getting the money to smoke or drink? That sounds like a quick ticket to depression to me. I didn't mean give him money for a flat but help him get himself in order to get his own place. Tell him you're going to start charging rent, even if it's 20 a week but put that money away for him for a deposit! Sorry if I'm sounding harsh here but something needs to be done and he clearly needs someone to point him in the right direction. It worries me that you're not taking any responsibility for how things are and that it's all his fault and you don't even like him. How long have you felt like that? He's still a child but he knows he's not loved... That's not gonna help. Again sorry if I'm sounding harsh here but I do have a bit of experience with this.

I do love him...I just don't the person he has become. His home life is a perfectly good environment, seems to be good enough for the other 3?... So I'm not sure that comment is needed...Me take responsibility?...for what exactly?... For his bad behaviour?...
I have taken him back to school, he won't go...by law I can't make him. The school said he can leave if he wants. I enrolled him in college...a fitness course (I have a tutor friend who got him a fast track place) he refused to go... I help him write cvs, I got him a part time job...again..he only goes sometimes... I got him into a week army programme to see if he liked it... He came back, said he wanted to do it...do progressed onto the two day medical... He got do drunk and stoned the day before, he couldn't go...so instead of saying that's what happened, I lied and said he had a sickness bug...I got him another medical interview for next week... He said he's not going?... So I think I am trying?...
I provide for him as any mother does but in return I get violence, attitude and like I said just general dis respect...
I've booked us into family councilling, he won't speak,.
I've tried to ignore his behaviour, I sometimes just go out and when I come back it's not so bad...but it flares up again every time he's either asked to get up or do something or just if he's in a bad mood.
But like I said... Yeah, he's living the life of Riley as in he does as he pleases...(maybe should have worded that better)
I only came on here for some advice in case anyone is or has been going through similar upset...
So please don't think I am a bad mother...I've just had enough...and don't know what to do, that's all.:(

Helen Op has already said "ie. he was brought up in a loving, peaceful, non violent home, so they're not being brought up like that.."

It would be difficult for anyone to like someone behaving as badly as stressedmum's ds is to her. But as she said she still loves him.

So I don't think your comment "it worries me that you're not taking any responsibility for how things are and that it's all his fault and you don't even like him. How long have you felt like that? He's still a child but he knows he's not loved... " applies at all.

She sounds as though she is looking for a way to remedy the situation without actually throwing her ds out (as she loves him and is worried where that would lead) but the difficulty is not only is he uncooperative on that point he is being destructive.

stressedmumof4 Maybe post in teenagers. You will see others in similar situations. Also if you look at threads with Maryz or Flow4 on, they give some excellent advice. Especially the importance of looking after yourself. Hope things improve soon for you and your family.

Thank you for your support juule.:)
Yeah, I never thought to post in teenagers... Anything is worth a try before my family is torn apart for good.
I keep saying it can't get any worse...so fingers crossed.:)

Oh I don't think you're a bad mother! I'm just trying to look at things from his side and sew what can be done! Like I said, I have some experience with something similar. It didn't end well but could have ended better if some of my advice was heeded! I didn't claim he was brought up in violence, just that his own home life can't be happy, regardless how happy it is for the rest of the family! There is often a black sheep of the family and it's gotta be a lonely place to be. Can you try a different counsellor? Perhaps this one just isn't right?

My comment does apply... Absolutely does! So you love him but don't always like him... He knows! I'm not trying to come down on you but, to get to the bottom of it, both sides need to be looked at!

I'd disagree about police involvement.
If any child of mine tried to burn my face I'm afraid they'd be taught the proper consequences for their actions.

And then you'd never hear from them again and give them a criminal record on top of it all. I'm sure most parents would avoid this route if at all possible!

I have a friend whose mother chose this route... 15 years later daughter will still not speak to her and she's alone and miserable as the whole family split as a result. She has also never met her 4 grandkids! You may think you can live with the consequences but it's not always that easy. Also the mother was clearly to blame for a lot of the issues (Which is why daughter was never even prosecuted as judge pitied her) but will still never accept that or apologise! It's a very sad situation all round!

Hi...it's a very sad situation and all advice is appreciated...
I often think it is my fault and I'm very aware of the whole 'black sheep' of the family... I myself am one and from a very broken home...left on my own at 15 with no family and a baby but I got through it...provided a happy environment for my boy and next 3...and I think this is why I haven't gone down the police route as I don't want to lose my little family too...
I suppose I am to blame in a lot of ways by not being harder on him with less serious things.
I'm not perfect by any means...but I feel that at almost 17 he should be taking some responsibility for his actions. If he behaved like this to someone else, he'd be in jail...i just hope he wants us as much as we do want him... A much nicer him, but him.x

I don't think anyone is born bad but someone on MN Teenagers' section once referred to some teens at this age as enduring emotions akin to a "hormonal tsunami". That by itself or on top of other factors can bring the most caring attentive parent to his or her knees. Loving but frankly not much liking that sort of troubled adolescent is by no means uncommon.

That's sums it up... Hormones have a lot to answer for.:)

Of course he should be taking responsibility and sorting his life out but, at 17, he doesn't understand this. I really hope you can sort this out soon... I feel for you! Bottom line though, unfortunately he has to move out! There's obviously a lack of respect and it's dangerous!