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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

DD asks to go to Naughty Corner!

18 replies

pendulum · 20/07/2006 19:06

Has anyone else had this problem?

I introduced the naughty corner concept about 2 weeks ago for my DD (2.2 yrs) who's entered a phase of persistent disobedience ("No!") and also slapping me.

First time she was totally shocked, in floods of tears etc. Since then I've used it a few times with diminishing effect- no tears, grinning up at me while I put on my best stern look. This evening she was kicking me while I did her nappy and ASKING me to put her in the corner. I thought, well I should do for the sake of consistency of consequences, so I did. Then she refused to get out of the bl**dy corner!! She seems to enjoy so much the ritual of being told to get in there, sit still, then at the end saying sorry and having a cuddle, that she is engineering situations to get herself in the corner.

Can anyone offer any advice? Does she have some kind of masochistic streak? Also, to anyone who has read Tanya Byron/ Supernanny etc- wtf do they suggest I do about this?!

Many thanks in advance!!

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Bellie · 20/07/2006 19:31

pendulum - snap!! dd (21months) does exactly the same! She will do something naughty (e.g kicking) and when I give her the warning if you do that you will go to the corner she will say yes and off she goes!
I do find though that if I walk out of the room and leave her she will generally start to whine or cry though so maybe it is the complete lack of attention that is needed?
No real advice but will watch with interest!

tiswas · 20/07/2006 19:32

My dd 3.4 was exactly the same it worked to start with, then she would go and sit herself on the naughty step when she knew she had gone to far! I think it about who's in control, I feel she was thinking 'right well you're gonna put me on the step anyway so I'll make you think that I want to sit there and its what I want to do anyway so I'm the one making the decision to sit there!!'Not mummy
We dropped the naughty step because results for us weren't great. Once when things got really bad and she just wouldnt listen I threatened to put her Barbie Car in the bin, the problem persisted and so I did. SHE HAS NEVER FORGOT THIS - Now that might seem really evil and wicked but ever since (and I only use when all else fails] When things are really bad, which is rarely, I will threaten to put XYX in the bin, and it stops her dead in her tracks !!
What a terrible mummy !!!

MerlinsBeard · 20/07/2006 19:33

ds1 did this for a short while too. we carried on taking him but made sure he got NO attention whatsoever while he was there, even as far as shutting the door which is usually open(we have a naughty space as are upstairs) and if he was naughty for the sake of going to the naughty space he went there with a smacked bum too

MerlinsBeard · 20/07/2006 19:34

u could always have a naughty box. and when she is naughty take a toy and put it in the box

liquidclocks · 20/07/2006 19:36

I'm by no means and expert and DS is only 20 months, (I use the bottom step at the mo for one minute and it works a treat) But just thought, do you stay with her while she's there? If so it could be that she knows she's got your complete attention. My HV suggested a travel cot if I didn't feel happy closing a door between us - which I don't when they're so little. But it does mean you can walk away and give yourself 'time-out' as well which can be just as important. ANd you don't have to hold that 'stern' look - I have to turn my back or I'd crease up!

Also - does she understand 'sorry', or does she think she's getting a cuddle for being naughty - I have to say I miss that step out as I don't think DS would get it.

Do persist - it could just be novelty factor and might wear off!

liquidclocks · 20/07/2006 19:38

Tiswas - I'm going to keep that tip for later!

tiswas · 20/07/2006 19:43

Well it works with my girl, does make you feel like a mean old mummy though - this was about a year ago and she is still telling people about it. We were at preschool this week and I heard her telling the teacher this !! so it definately sunk in.

Katymac · 20/07/2006 19:50

I use time out rather than naughty corner

It can be difficult to separate the behaviour (which is naughty) and the child (who isn't naughty - but has naughty behaviour)

I also so use different parts of the room - so it isn't always the same place

Don't know if that would help - as they never know where I am going to put them, so they cannot pre-empt me by going there

threebob · 20/07/2006 20:22

pendulum - I think what you say suggests it is working, rather than not working. She understands cause and effect - unfortunately she misbehaves and gets a cuddle (albeit after a sit).

Get rid of the sorry and the cuddle and go for the time alone to think, just go back to normal once she comes out.

My ds sometimes deliberately does something to get sent to his room if he is feeling fragile.

Original poster

pendulum · 20/07/2006 20:47

Wow, thanks for all the replies! Good to know it is not just mine.

Will definitely try keeping naughty corner but getting rid of cuddle for minor misdemeanours- think you may be right, the subtlety of sorry is probably lost on someone who still poos in her pants But I'm not sure how I can walk away, leave the room etc without her immediately scampering off- should I spy on her from a distance?

Also like the idea of taking away privileges, especially the naughty box. Think it would make a big impression to have whatever favourite thing she is currently carting around the house whipped out of her hands and visibly locked away. (Just as long as it isn't my car keys/ mobile!)

Any more ideas, this is all great advice!

OP posts:

lucy5 · 20/07/2006 20:50

My dd used to put herself on the naughty step or if asked did she want to go on the naughty step, she would say yes. I gave up in the end and went down the root of taking something away, usually chocolate.

threebob · 21/07/2006 09:37

Don't take away the toy unless it was part of the misbehaving - or else you set up another association that is not what you intended.

Think - "what am I trying to do here?"

Presumably let her calm down and have a little think. nobody calms down and thinks when their favourite toy is snatched off them.

liquidclocks · 21/07/2006 09:59

I'd either try to turn my back on her and if you have to put her back don't make eye contact, or try my HV's travel cot idea - that way there's no escape but the soft sides mean she's at little risk of injury.

Or have you got a booster seat/highcahir with straps or could you invest in a cheap one that's reserved for when she's being naughty? I thought about a pushchair but you wouldn't want to associate being put in a pushchair or regular feeding chair with being angry and told off.

Be intrested to know what works for future reference!

sparklemagic · 21/07/2006 10:24

I found at this age that basically DS was very labour intensive - it was full on positive attention, down on the floor playing for him almost all the time, unless I was going to the loo (when he'd come with me!) or preparing his lunch....I found this level of attention did keep him more or less out of trouble. Also I didn't really 'tell' him to do stuff in order to avoid the defiance and 'NO'! I would make it a game, make it part of whatever game he was playing eg "Here are noddy's trousers, you can't drive your car without these noddy!" etc etc, also used reverse psychology, eg "I'm leaving these trousers on the floor, I DO hope you won't put them on, they are not for you, they are for noddy" etc etc.....

Once he was two-ish I did use time out, as a last resort. Didn't want to use a 'naughty' step, just wanted something we could use to give us bothtime to cool down when he got really beside himself....he hated it and never came out with a 'sorry' but it DID work to defuse whatever situation......I think it's the total withdrawal of attention that works.

Don't know if any of this will apply, it's just what worked for me and DS. I always think with toddlers that if you have an expectation that they will do things when requested, you are setting yourself up for stress! Just assume that you will have to work creative ways round things and you will both have more fun! This approach has not made my DS disobedient, he's actually now VERY compliant.

Original poster

pendulum · 21/07/2006 19:33

Thanks all.
I do agree that sometimes 'time out' is the best thing for both of us- not necessarily a punishment, but a chance to cool down when I suspect I am being too impatient and we are both reaching boiling point (we are both quite stubborn). Maybe that is what I will keep the naughty corner for- renamed time out and without the cuddle afterwards.

I also think there are certain behaviours that I need to come down hard on- sometimes without even a warning- such as slapping/ kicking me.

The really difficult question is what to do about the stuff that really winds me up without being especially naughty- i.e. the constant defiance. I do use the reverse psychology, humour, distraction and so on whenever possible, but at 8am, when I've got to get her to nursery and then myself to work in time for an 8.30 conference call, I just wish I had the perfect method/ the authoritative tone for short-cutting all that and getting her toothbrush into her mouth quick smart!

OP posts:

threebob · 21/07/2006 21:45

You don't warn with time out. It's where you go to cool down after you do something you shouldn't. Eventually you work out that behviour is not acceptable and stop doing it.

If you warn, you run the risk that the child will do it anyway.

Original poster

pendulum · 22/07/2006 13:42

threebob- you sound so sure of your methods (which I mean as a compliment)

Does that come with trial and error or have you read a lot of experts and boiled down their views to the stuff that works for you? Did you always feel you were doing it the right way for you/ DS even before it worked the way you wanted it to?

I'm not being sniffy, I am just genuinely interested - I am aware of the naughty step/ corner concept but have no idea about the subtleties, and there seem to be so many different approaches.

OP posts:

threebob · 22/07/2006 20:30

I observed many people have children before me and use time out really well. I emulate them.

My brother is famous for sending himself to his room in our family. I saw a girl whack her baby brother really hard after being warned about time out (obviously it was worth it). I once sent ds to time out (at that stage in his cot) and he went to sleep. My dh puts himself in Time out (leaves the room)rather than saying things he will regret. My solicitor sent me out of the room to "get a glass of water" to prevent me from saying something I would regret to my arse of a boss.

I should also credit the author Diane Levy - who makes lots of sense on lots of issues.

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