Am I expecting too much for them to remain at the table at meal times until I say so? (nearly 4 and 2)

[oliveoil]

I have battles constantly

sit down
get back on your chair
you have not FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

etc etc etc

so they roam around the room and pop back to the table for more food, then roam a bit more

dd1 is 3, will be 4 in October
dd2 is 23 months

Should I just ignore it and pick my battles on something else? Are they too young?

Kittywits i think you are a little judgemental - i have 2 children with very different personalities - one will sit at table one will not, one will not share is aggresssive etc the other is not. This is not because i set boundaries with ds1 and "liberal parenting" techniques with ds2- it is because they are individuals. Plus general advice re: parenting is too praise/reward the wanted behaviour and ignore the unwanted behaviour which is why some parents "fail too chastise"

I think nannyl's post shows itself as one coming from someone dealing with 'charges' rather than their own children; this is because for ME anyway, there is more at stake here than whether my child is drilled and rehearsed to the degree that they recite the dinnertime 'script', because I am their mum, not a nanny, and it matters to me what our relationship is for the long term not just for a few years; it matters to me that my ds learns from watching adults and joining in at his own pace, because for me this is about respecting him; I trust him; I know he is a kind, polite and decent person and as soon as he is socially ready he will enjoy sitting around the table with us and Discussing His Day etc; for now, when he's finished he goes and plays. Because he is 3.

There is no doubt we as parents could train him to do as nannyl's charges but I think we would lose something subtle but important from our relationship.

And to me it seems perfect common sense that someone who grows up knowing they are trusted to have just that subtle bit more freedom than others, are likely to have more confidence. Freedom doesn't mean running amok, it just means that we look at him as within his current stage of development and trust him to do the very best he can; which he always does.

My problem with the not sitting at the table, etc. would be when we were out. Obviously there is no way I could allow DD to get down and walk around in a restaurant, so have to have similar rules at home as we would when out. Eating out as a family is really important to us and we have done som at least 1-2 times a week since DD was a newborn.

DD knows the rules. She loves her food and we all enjoy our evening meal together, at the table, once DH is home from work. It is a special and important time for us here.

Hula, I agree, we like mealtimes together too and have some really nice chats as a family! The thing about eating out illustrates exactly what I was saying about trusting my DS - when we're out all it takes is for us to tell him that as we're in a restuarant/cafe, he must wait with us till we're all finished. He does this no problem!

I would second sparkle. In my dd's case, she somehow picks up the social occasion of eating out and is much happier to stay in her chair (unstrapped!) during the meal, whether or not she is actively eating.

Well thats all find and dandy then. All behaving themselves in company and when eating out in public. Thats just how I like it. Sadly it is very noticeable that we English aint so good at keeping out kids in the manners that they should be accustomed when out in a restaurant.

I have to add that I don't tend to take dd to posh restaurants - the v. few times I did, particularly dinner time, have been disastrous. She does much better at pub restaurants, those that have many kids, or are just generally child friendly. I do try to strike a balance between what dd can cope with and the needs of other diners for a peaceful meal.

Albosmum, sorry that you feel I am judgmental. My children also have a wide ranging personality types. Some are sweeter natured than others. This doesn't however, change the fact that they MUST do what they are told.
There are many different ways of leading a child to the place where you want them to go. Ignoring bad behaviour and rewarding the good is one way, but bad behaviour should not always be ignored.
I made the comment about children running amok because it happens. They do what they want and the parents make some small attempts to control them, but give up and the child knows it can do what it wants. You must have seen this happen many times.
Yes there are many different parenting styles and most of them end up reaching the same parenting destination but by different routes. I might disagree with some more than others, we all have our own preferences and that's ok.
Blue shoes, as I said I try not to be judgemental, but reserve the right be do so when other people's ill disciplined children spoil my of my familiy's enjoyment of a particular situation. I still maintain that whilst most parenting styles are variations on a theme and are fine, some are actually rubbish.

I cant belive people thought i was not real...

yes thats what REALLY happens.... and the same happens when im not there.... in fact mummy and daddy are even more hot on table manners than myself!

yes they DO have to put their knife and fork down in the correct way to show they have finished.... its called table manners (and they also have to at their school)
Ofcourse they have to wait until we all finished before having pudding.... in the same way that they do at school!

Im genuinely shocked that people dont belive it!

IMO manners are very important and children learn good manners and to be respectful at home first.

As for relationship is only gor a few years.... wel maybe it is... but i have a good relationship with all my charges.... even my old ones, infact im going on holiday with my OLD charged on Saturday.... but thats beside the pont.

I HATE going into restaurants and seeing children (and adults) with bad table manners...

My bosses (and myself occasionaly) can take my charges (now aged just 4 and 5) into any restaurant and know that they will sit nicely and eat nicely with good manners.... cause that is how they have ben brought up...

It started before i worked there.... is happening while i continue to work there.... and will no doubt continue when i leave, except for as they get older 'more' will be expected of them....

at the moment 5 year old is expected to hold knife and fork in correct hands... 4 year old is just exepected to use her knife fork and spoon to eat her food... in what ever way she wants to use them!

We also eat at the table.... with no TV and have geniuniely nice civilised converstaion and chatting etc.... Meal times are NOT stressful, and at the end of the day i have charges who eat pretty much ANYTHING.... and who almost always eat 'nicely'.

I will exepct nothing less of my own children when i eventually have them!

Just to add i eat with the children.... and set the example...

when im not there its mummy and / or daddy who sit down and eat with the children!

Oh and woodheys i know all about 'parenting' styles and structures.... studied them in great depth during my DEGREE in PSYCHOLOGY

Insist on table manners or you might have kids who end up like this!

TBH I can't understand people who let their children get away with bad manners. I do honestly wonder if some parents are actually scared of upsetting their kids, so they give in to them. it's good to see that there are so many people here who are like minded.

aah bless, they are a little young to eat a whole meal undistracted, but you have to start somewhere when your trying to teach them manners don't you? we have similar prob in our house, but i don't let it get to boiling point, not worth it..

Personally, my one aim is for the 'ask to get down first' bit. I do sometimes ask dd (2.7) 'don't you want pudding' and if she doesn't she can get down, if she does she happily stays.
We nearly always eat together as a family, and meal times are mostly fun - BUT if dd is particularly tired, unwell, or stressed (rare) I make allowances: rules are for general use, not for bashing myself or my child over the head with. There are times when I'm feeling crappy when I will excuse myself from table and go and put my feet up (pregnant and knackered) with my half eaten yoghurt...so dd gets the same treatment.

Half my family is French, and I remember having to sit over endless boring meals for HOURS whilst the grownups talked over my head...didn't do me or my manners any good at all! So I think a system that acknowledges that not all meal-eaters are the same/have the same needs and limitations is best. But do agree that some sort of structure, no tv, and lots of social interaction work well.

For me

God, I'm so middle of the road

I am with NannyL here. My children have had to learn from an early age to sit at the table, use knives and forks and behave themselves.

I was like that in the UK and have probably got even stricter about it here in France. They eat nicely, we talk, they finish, they have pudding then they ask to get down and the adults remain at the table. I think if you do it all daily, and expect it, it becomes routine and second nature.

Bad table manners in children make me twitchy - bad table manners in adults makes me JUDGE them.

I would also like to add that some of the worst eating habits I have ever had the misfortune to witness were in a French family (don't I sound like an up-my-own-arse-prig?) Child would eat no where but sitting on the coffee table in front of the blaring tv, using hands for everything rather than knife and fork, and a mother who ate fish and spag bol on the same plate, at the same time, because it was easier than serving two courses.....