Am I expecting too much for them to remain at the table at meal times until I say so? (nearly 4 and 2)

[oliveoil]

I have battles constantly

sit down
get back on your chair
you have not FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

etc etc etc

so they roam around the room and pop back to the table for more food, then roam a bit more

dd1 is 3, will be 4 in October
dd2 is 23 months

Should I just ignore it and pick my battles on something else? Are they too young?

yes, you are expecting too much!

"We don't allow it".

Not sure if aimed at me, but I certainly don't see myself as an ace parent over this. It is just something we do and it works for us, probably made loads easier as we have just the one child.

I completley agree with skribble. You have to set guide lines. Let them do what they please when they're little is really asking for trouble when they're older.

Woodheys: I would not say it is about a toddler dying of starvation. It is about them learning boundaries and obeying rules. At 2 and 4 they should do what they are told. If you want them to sit at the table, then they should sit. Otherwise it's a serious case of the tail wagging the dog.

not lucky - just an expectation we have worked hard to have the dds achieve - my 4yo has sn and she knows she does not get down until she has finished - but if we are all togther - she does not get down until we say she can. Something we have worked on since she sat up at the table in her booster seat. the 20 month old - is learning what the rules are too and she is getting good at following expectations.

IMO it's also about them not wasting too much food. if someone bothers to cook a fairly nutritious meal that they actually like, it's irritating to have them all getting down after 2 minutes because one has "finished". and then they're all hungry half an hour later and pestering for more food.

i do agree about not making food and meals a battletime, that's important for us. especially with 3 dds and being well aware of the prevalance of eating disorders.

DS1 was brilliant at staying at the table till we had DS2. But that was because he still had the wooden front on his Tripp Trapp

I took it off when it became clear that if I was going to be able to bfeed DS2 at all successfully, DS1 had to be able to get up and down to the table to stop him whinging and wailing "Out, out, out!" while I was feeding newborn DS2 on the sofa (in the same room). I tried sitting at the table with them both but can't bfeed comfortably like that.

Now DS1 doesn't like staying put for a meal. But he's fine when we're out and I make sure that I have various different bits and pieces for him to play with if he does finish early. He had an ELC clock the other day and it kept him amused for ages. He actually asks to be strapped in if he's in a highchair with straps - strange boy!

Message withdrawn

I agree with most here that guidelines are a good thing but I personally don't look on it as something to be heavy and serious over. I do agree, guidelines for the kids from the moment they are out of boosters and at liberty - but I really believe that the kids will get better at staying and more civilised about it as they get older and get more socially aware...so in other words my DS has the 'if you get down from the table your dinner is taken away because you must have finished' guideline but it's not something I get het up over, I just remind him of it if he looks like making a break for freedom and he usually stays put till he's finished.

When he's done, he tells me he's going to go and play and he plays while DH and I stay at the table until we've finished....I really honestly think this is just as valuable to DS as yelling at him to stay put - it's a yucky phrase but 'role modelling' really does work and by seeing what adults do at the table, kids are learning just as much as if you're constantly badgering them and telling them what they should be doing. As long as having dinner together is a pleasant experience, not a boot camp type of thing, I really think that as they get older kids naturally stay put and take part more. So I don't think it's worth getting all bent out of shape over when they are between 2 -6 years old; just tell them what's expected and be consistent with the food going away if they get up, and that's all you can do I reckon.

also, have never forgotten my dismay when I was round at a friend's for dinner (must have been about 6 or 7?) and the friend asked her mum in a really "I'm reciting a script" way, "May I get down from the table?" and I felt quite proud that in my family we didn't have 'set' things to say just because we were kids and didn't have to ask!

totally agree, sparkle. Role modelling and passage of time is my strategy as well. It will be easier when children are older because they have more to contribute to the conversation and feel more involved in mealtimes as a social situation. Unrealistic for a younger child.

Haven't read the other answers but ...

DS is a good eater so will eat until he is full then ask to leave the table (he is 6 and a half) ... don't ask me how come he is like that he just is ... I didn't do anything to make him a good eater ...

DD (2 and a half) is a different story. She eat breakfast well but for lunch and dinner I struggle to get her to eat a meal. So at lunch time I am relaxed and she 'grazes'. But at dinner time even if she hasn't eaten anything she knows that once she says she is finished then the food goes away. I don't stress about making her eat - I know she won't starve and I can't stand the aggro. What I won't do at dinner time is let her come back, eat a bit more, then go off again. So even if she only sits for 2 minutes and has one bite before she says she is finished then that is it for me.

I have two points: 1. We try to eat at least 2 'family' meals a week - once or twice during the week and once at weekends ... she tends to eat more if we are all eating together and wants to take part in the social side of family meals.
2. I make sure I cook something that she likes (and her likes are limited tbh) - so we have Spaghetti Bolognese and Shepherd's Pie (the only 'meals' she will eat) once a week .... so the hassle of a family meal (ie. not being able to eat your own dinner because you are too busy trying to coax the toddler to eat something new that she won't try) is lessened. The meals she eats just with DS are more snacky picky meals that she will nibble on (still healthy I assure you )

totally agree, sparkle. Role modelling and passage of time is my strategy as well. It will be easier when children are older because they have more to contribute to the conversation and feel more involved in mealtimes as a social situation. Unrealistic for a younger child.

The good thing about encouraging sitting until finished at least, is that it makes going out a lot easier and less stressfull. I love eating out with our two.

Chose a rule and then stick to it. Mine are 3 and 6 now but have always had to wait at the table until everyone has finished and then must ask for permision to leave. Also asking to leave before the last person has finished chewing gets them extra minutes of waiting. Make a plan of what you'd like to happen and then stick with it. They may howl or resort to whimpering but it's not going to hurt them to have a cry over some discipline. It may take a while but if they get the same answer every time they produce the behaviour they stop asking the question (eventually).
Sorry if I seem like an uncaring military minded mare. I've found it works in my case (though we really are very far from being the Waltons).

I dont think they are too young at all...

started with my current charges aged 28 months and just 4 years...

they are NOT allowed to get down until they have said "thank you or my dinner and please can i get down"

and nor would they...

and i have NEVER let them

they also have to put their knife and fork neatly on their plate to show that they have finished.... and wait until everyone (who has been eating sensibley ) has finished, before we even get pudding out.... and only then after they have wiped their hands would they even think about being allowed to get down

Not to young at all IMO!

sometimes after their main meal (ie before pudding) they say "please can i get down" I say dont you want any pudding?

Normally they do want pudding so are reminded that we sit nicely until its pudding time.... and if they REALLY dont want pudding (whish is VERY rare!) THEN they can get down before the pudding course commences....

UNLESS they are having a 'strop' because they dont want the pudding thats on offer.... (whihc i know they like) in which case they can stay sitting there and watch us eat it!

maggie and nannyl, you are ladies after my own heart!
Children need rigid boudaries. Too often I have had to deal with other children hitting, pushing, not being able to share etc , my own children. I always find it AMAZING the number of parents who watch their children behave in a less then acceptable way and either chastise them in a way that is as good as useless or can't actually catch the child to chastise them and then give up!
What sort of message does that give FHS? Asking childfen to wait at the dinner table is more than simply asking them to do that. It is about the children respecting your authority as an adult and if they respect this then the benefits spill over into all areas of parenting AND will benefit them as adults too.

kittywits, I agree about hitting, pushing and aggression requiring quick and vigilant attention from parents. But just don't feel that eating is one of those battles where it is worth sweating over at this age.

Dd, I understand, toes the line at nursery with her peers and she is also generally fine at restaurants - because they are more obviously social situations. But at home, she doesn't feel the same way. I can spend the next few years being a martinet at mealtimes or we can just relax and as parents model enjoying food at the table and wait for her to feel ready to join us.

Just different strokes ... and parenting styles. I am not 100% comfortable with the "do as I say" school. I do set strict boundaries as well but they are just the essential areas like aggression and safety, not eating at this age.

Blueshoes, there are of course so many different parenting styles. Some I that are rubbish and others good, but that is merely my opinion. I think there is a fine line to tread as regards food because food shouldn't been seen by a child as an axe they can wield.
Perhaps the most important thing is that each parent should decide on their set of rules and then STICK TO THEM. In some ways it doesn't matter what the rules are.
I believe children have to learn to obey the rules their parents set for them because they are children.

Nanny L - can't tell if you're for real or being facetious?!
All sounds a bit too over the top for me - knives and forks in a straight line or whatever it was. Does that really matter? (Is your surname Stepford?). Oh well, if it works for you and makes you happy, good luck to you.
By the way, did you know that research has shown that the children of dominant parents grow up less confident and assertive than those whose parents allow them suitable freedom to make their own decisions? My DP is a victim, so I know!

I always doubt these surveys, they are nearly always skewed in some way, leaving out vital pieces of information about the groups chosen etc.
I also think it depends very much what you class as dominance doesn't it? Insisting that your children are respectful and obey the rules set within the family does not preclude alowing them the freedom to make decisions surely?
It has been shown time and time again that children need boudaries. A sensible balance has to be struck. I am neither in favour of beating children physically or verbally, nor is it right to let them run amok in the name of liberal parenting.

Kittywits, it begs the question of where do parents choose to draw the boundaries. It is a judgment call based on parenting style, the nature of the child, the personality of the parent.

You might think a toddler who does not sit at a table is "running amok" but to another parent, it is not considered a realistic expectation until the child is older. Like I say different strokes. And I would not generalise that one style of parenting is "rubbish" or another is not.

blimey blueshoes, very diplomatic for mn thread, nearly fell off my swivel chair.

Well im all for the tough approach, I started the moment ds now 4 was able to sit unaided and strapped into a chair!
As soon as he could string a sentence together he would thank me for his dinner and ask if he may get down.

All done automatically now and will also do the same when out.

So get em early

and unstrapped in a chair