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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

I have just said something unforgivable to my DC

80 replies

AnneWentworth · 13/12/2013 21:15

I find DS3 challenging. He is 2, he will be 3 early in the new year.

He is spirited and loving and gives lovely hugs and talks all the time and is friendly, but he is really getting me down.

we have two other DSs who are almost 8 and 6. He gets into every single thing you could possibly imagine. We are childproofed (for the first time) then the other day I found him opening a window that even I need to stand on something to get to. I find it impossible to do anything when he is around me because either he is being lovely but attached to me or putting pencils in microwaves (outing myself) so you can't even trust him to go to the loo.

All of this I can just about manage, but he is beginning to have an effect on my relationship with my other DC and on my behaviour towards them.He won't even let me have a conversation with them, if I try to read a story he has to be the one on my lap, he decides when the story is over even if the other two want to hear it. If one is allowed their computer or iPad time he has to be involved and then just turns it off. He won't share anything, like the massive bowl of popcorn tonight. He won't let them watch what they want, he won't let them do their homework. He now won't go to bed without them - which was when we were able to do these things.

He shares a room with DS2, but this is recent, as the older two shared until recently. DS1 has a large bed and they all agreed to have a sleepover in his room tonight. DS3 insisted on a book and DS1 offered to read it. But, he wouldn't let DS2 look at it. Then he kept messing about with the pages, then he took the book and refused to let DS1 finish reading it (he had got into it). DS1 then said he either gave the book back or had to sleep in his own bed. FOr too long we have given into him because he is little/learning etc. DS1 had an outburst where he declared we always make him give everything to his brother - and e is right. I removed DS3 from the bed (with the bloody book) and he was happy in the bunk bed in his own room for a while and I had a chate with DS1 and DS2. DS1 mostly sulked and didnt want to talk and was visiibly upset.

DS3 then came back and insisted he be allowed to sleep in the middle of the bed where DS2 was lying. He was screaming and screaming (he always screams when he wants something) and I shouted at DS2 to let him sleep there and shouted that I was at the end of my tether and that one day soon I was going to walk out of the door and never come back. I was crying like a bloody idiot. DS2 immediately moved, gave me a big hug but was sobbing on my shoulder. I immediately told him and DS1 (as well as DS3 who wasnt listening at all btu just happy he got the spot he wanted), that I was just upset and tired and that of course I would never ever leave them and I loved them all very much.

I just feel so shit. And I have made me kids feel even shitter before bed. I dread my days off with DS3 and where I might get stressed. I feel like I am constantly shouting at the other two almost more that DS3.

He doesnt respond to any kind of sanction or bribery.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

sweetiepie1979 · 14/12/2013 00:30

I know what you mean about sanctions not working. 2 is still quite Young for them to grasp that. The other day when dd was naughty I kept saying no park if you do that again she did it again ( kicked the laptop) so I put her in the buggy very calmly but my god I was angry and took her to the park her face lit up a d I took her right to the gate and Saud no park you were naughty -home and walked home again with her very upset shouting I'm sorry. Now I dint know if that was the right thing to do but for me it was and I felt a sense of control. Which I needed to get and she needed to know I have the control

JollySantersSelectionBox · 14/12/2013 00:39

Tantrums go on as long as they can hold an audience. Personally I would not recommend locking a child on their own in a room at that age as it's quite distressing.

Do you have a safe area in the flat that is gated off - hallway with nothing in it? If he fails to behave with two warnings he goes into this area for a few minutes. If not, take him to his bedroom and sit in there on the floor with your back against the door ignoring him until he calms down. If he starts climbing about sit him back with a calm no.

Don't engage - sit with your head in your lap staring at the wall or floor. Once he realises there won't be attention for screaming he will learn to curb his tantrums. it's not going to be easy op, and your DH will need to be supportive when you need to discipline.

Sparklyboots · 14/12/2013 00:55

Hmmm, while I agree that tantrums should not be treated as a negotiating tool, I would point out that they are often distressing for the child who literally can not contain or calm their intensely negative feelings. In younger children especially, it's unlikely that they are purely calculating. You don't have to do anything about their demands or 'give in;' but it also doesn't hurt to be kind to someone in the throes of distress. Outright rejection of a child for feelings you don't like seems to be swapping one set of problems for another IMO

JollySantersSelectionBox · 14/12/2013 01:01

Where is there outright rejection Sparkly?

matana · 14/12/2013 08:12

I have one of these...loved to bits but exhausting...and I have no other dc! Be kind to yourself.

LingDiLong · 14/12/2013 08:16

Brilliant post from Goldmandra. I can't say I think that deliberately upsetting and provoking a 2 year old by taking them to a park and then back again is a good idea. Totally cruel and unnecessary if you ask me. Surely if a child kicks a laptop you remove the laptop rather than turn the situation into WW3.

Original poster

AnneWentworth · 14/12/2013 08:18

Well, Everyone has woken up in a better mood. He had a mini meltdown for a milkshake but I just picked him and took him back to bed and said it was still night time. He was fine. I think most of the issues occur when his brothers are around. That us when I don't rain calm, end up shouting at them unfairly and generally feel out of control. I am going to work on the suggested ideas here when it is just the two if us. We are very busy usually but things are just slowing down now so I am going to work on all these things over the holidays and get it sorted.

What do you do when the tantrums are at someone else's home or outside etc? Presumably you can't let them scream for 30 mins.

OP posts:

Original poster

AnneWentworth · 14/12/2013 08:18

What do you do when the tantrums are at someone else's home or outside etc? Presumably you can't let them scream for 30 mins.

OP posts:

LingDiLong · 14/12/2013 08:30

Glad you sound more positive! I'd just take them home if they're not calming down, in the interests of everyone elses ears!

Gluezilla · 14/12/2013 08:36

If mine had epic tantrums whilst out - at the park,groups or someones house they had one warning and then we went home.

Goldmandra · 14/12/2013 10:07

If you are out anywhere you still need to ride the tantrum out. You can let them scream, take them outside for a bit or leave.

If you give in just because you are out you will give them mixed messages and just make it all harder.

Consistency is really important.

Hope today carries on going well for you.

sweetiepie1979 · 14/12/2013 10:59

We'll she's never kicked the laptop since lingilong! And I very much take offence at you ssuggesting I'm cruel and deliberately provoking my child. We all parent in different ways and it's what worked for me that day. Do try to not be so judgemental!

LingDiLong · 14/12/2013 12:02

I didn't say YOU were cruel but I think pretending to take a child to the park is cruel. Sledgehammer to crack a nut. Based on that and your last post, perhaps you need to get a handle on your temper...

sweetiepie1979 · 14/12/2013 18:22

A handle on my temper? You have got me completely wrong! I've not lost my temper with my child or you I told you I felt insulted I certainly didn't lose my temper. You perhaps need to keep a more open mind when reading posts.

TheMaw · 15/12/2013 12:59

Sweetiepie, that's totally ridiculous, what a weird thing to be proud of.

OP, I've just caught up with this thread, glad he's feeling a bit better now. My friend had a really difficult four year old who eventually grew out of it, but my god she was put through the ringer! I think it's good you're addressing his behaviour now, rather than letting it go on and on.

Original poster

AnneWentworth · 15/12/2013 13:15

We are having a good weekend. Lots of screeching but I am just taking him away from the situation and trying to distract and occasionally letting him scream it out.

OP posts:

breatheslowly · 15/12/2013 15:14

Does he get enough sleep? I ask because you mentioned that he woke up in a better mood. My DD can be awful if she is tired. With older brothers he may be tempted to have the same amount of sleep as them but I would guess that he needs more.

Goldmandra · 15/12/2013 15:20

We are having a good weekend. Lots of screeching but I am just taking him away from the situation and trying to distract and occasionally letting him scream it out.

Sounds like you're handling it right

Original poster

AnneWentworth · 15/12/2013 15:45

He does not nap anymore unless I get him in the pushchair for pick up. He won't go to bed without them since we swapped rooms. He used to be by himself. Ds1 really wanted his space so changing back not really an option unless it becomes completely untenable.

Last night he was up until 10 whilst the other two were asleep by 8.30. He was up before them at 6.30.

OP posts:

HollaAtMeBaby · 15/12/2013 16:04

Do you feel you are really being as tough as you possibly could be? For example, I am mystified by "he will not stay in time out". He is 2. You will need to physically return him to time out (without communication/eye contact/comfort) until he does stay there for his full 2 minutes.

Also important to ensure that your DP is strict in a way that supports you and that the two of you have a unified approach - if he is terrifying and shouty he becomes that bad cop and then you are edged into being good cop/not strict enough.

Can you leave DS3 with DP to ensure you get individual quality time with each of the other DCs? It sounds like they are both suffering from your and DP's inability to control your youngest

FionasFatFairy · 15/12/2013 16:05

I sympathise. We have 3 DC and no. 3 who is now 3 exhibits many of these behaviours.

I often find her behaviour is poor if she is hungry (our house doesn't have a strict routine).

We do use ime out, on one notable occassion I managed to have one on the naughty step, one by the front door (back up naughty step) with the third one in time out in the kitchen.

If he can get out of everywhere, can you strap him into his buggy, facing the corner/wall/door with the brakes on for time out?

I am currently trying to get out of the habit of giving in to DD2 for a quiet life, it is hard work, but not as hard as the alternative.

Original poster

AnneWentworth · 15/12/2013 16:11

Holla - I do get time with the other two. My parents sometimes look after him whilst we go out for the afternoon or whatever. It is regular too.

How much time can I actually devote to returning him to time out? Particularly if this occurs when we are doing homework etc. I appreciate I am just going to have to do it and get on with it as we have no further options now. But if I am devoting 30+ minutes every time then am I going to achieve anything. That is a genuine question I am giving everything a go.

DH is not going to change his way, he isn't going to do timeouts when he is already listened too albeit for a short time. I realise we should be presenting a united front but it will not happen.

OP posts:

Goldmandra · 15/12/2013 16:26

I am mystified by "he will not stay in time out".

Before you decide to have a battle about a child staying in time out you need to think about what you're using time out for.

The best use of time out is calming down and having a think. You don't need to sit on a special chair, step or spot for you child to be put on. They just need to be away from the situation that's causing the conflict. You can achieve that by picking him up and leaving the room.

If you remove them from one conflict, then kick off a new conflict of your own by making them sit in a special punishment place, you're making it harder for them and you.

If a child is out of the situation and calming down they need to be there just until they are calm and reasonable. How long that will take depends on the situation or the child. The principle of one minute per year of their age is a recommended maximum, not a target. A child can calm down and agree to stop a behaviour within seconds of being removed if they are in the right frame of mind whereas one in full tantrum mode can take up to 45 minutes to even start to process language properly.

10pm is very late. When you say he is up, do you mean in bed but awake, or do you mean downstairs playing, watching tv, etc?

rootypig · 15/12/2013 16:29

Well, the answer has to be escalating sanctions eg if you don't stay in time out no friend to play or whatever, or to shut him in. Neither is an appealing thought with such a little boy but I prefer shut him in (am imagining a room, not a cupboard!!) it's simpler, and means the consequences don't rebound to make him more unhappy or bitter, iyswim.

Original poster

AnneWentworth · 15/12/2013 16:31

Last night was an anomaly. He isn't usually up at that time. He was sitting in bed playing.

He won't calm down though that is the problem. I explain that as soon as he has calmed down, stopped screaming etc we can go back or go and do something similar but he can't hear me because of the crying and trying to escape immediately. Yesterday I took him into his room where he continued to scream and scream suddenly da2 was in the next room and knocking on the wall and he was happy and was knocking back etc.

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