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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

I don't know how to survive this...

76 replies

AlmondFrangipani · 19/10/2013 22:35

I haven't slept for 11 weeks since my baby was born. He doesn't sleep for more than an hour and a half at night and I'm beyond exhausted. I know why they use sleep deprivation as a torture technique. I cry most days and struggle to enjoy the good bits of being a Mum . How do you survive this???

OP posts:

Twattergy · 23/10/2013 19:53

It may not be suitable for reflux babies but consider swaddling. The Velcro swaddles are big enough for use up to about 7 months. If baby likes it can make them sleep longer at night without feeding.

mawbroon · 24/10/2013 21:19

It is fucking torture!! DS1 was a horrendous sleeper, and was also tongue tied, except it went undiagnosed until he was 6yo.

Tongue tie really can affect sleeping. Could it have reattached? (did you do stretching afterwards?) Are you confident that the tie was fully released? What type of tie was it? Sometimes an anterior tie can be released, but a posterior tie remain because the HCP isn't aware of posterior ties. Is there a high palate? That can also cause sleep problems.

I would suggest that you investigate the tongue tie issue further until you are absolutely sure that it is no longer an issue.

bumpitybumpbump · 25/10/2013 16:03

Almond, firstly well done on how well you are coping so far - the first months are unbelievably hard and you are continuing to always put you LO first which means you will undoubtedly be a great mum.

I wouldn't normally feel qualified to offer advice myself, but I do have a few tips that I learned from a maternity nurse...some people may not agree with some of them, and all I can say is that neither did I at first until I saw how well they worked and how much happier my LO was.

My Mat nurse had been a maternity nurse for 35 years and has looked after more newborns than I've had hot dinners - and she believes that most babies over a month old can go between 3 to 4 hours for a feed during the day. The reason I say this is that my little one was snacking in the day and therefore over relying on night feeds - when what I wanted her to do was take a full feed and then be hungry enough for the next feed to again take a full feed. It meant I had to distract her for half an hour when she started getting hungry and moany- dummy and dancing with her in my arms to the Graceland album seemed to work, but it meant that by the final feed she fed really well at 7pm and would sleep through until I dream fed her at 11pm - it eliminated the cluster feeding nightmare that my evenings had become in 24 hours. I should caveat this with the exception that if a baby has reflux this would not be appropriate and the tongue tie should definitely be ruled out from preventing a proper feed by your gp - if in any doubt get baby checked.

Other things she instigated - swaddling - made a huge difference to how she slept at night. Also she would tuck her in really snuggly right up to her shoulders where I had been paranoid about overheating/suffocation. I know the temperature guidelines are there for a reason, but If I follow them with my LO even now she's 7 months, she wakes up and is freezing!

mawbroon · 25/10/2013 17:26

bumpity - tongue tie should not be checked by the GP. GPs know fuck all about tongue tie.

And neither do most HVs or midwives.

bumpitybumpbump · 25/10/2013 19:05

Hi Mawbroon, really? That's shocking, although now I think about it I do remember my friend saying she was met with ignorance when she went to her gp as she suspected "lip tie" . I knew nothing of this but apparently it can acuse similar problems...

mawbroon · 25/10/2013 20:56

Lip ties very rarely come without a tongue tie (usually a posterior) and it is likely that the combination of the two ties is the cause of many problems.

blurryeyegirl · 25/10/2013 21:30

I know it is recommended because of the potential increase in cot death, but have you tried him sleeping on his tummy? Both of mine were/are refluxy and both slept on their tummies 200% better than the sleep/fight/wake cycle they had going on when on their backs....

blurryeyegirl · 25/10/2013 21:30

NOT recommended

stopgap · 26/10/2013 01:34

My DS had silent reflux for almost a year. He did improve on medication a little, but sleeping on an incline was crucial for him. Laid down flat, he would wake every hour with a bloodcurdling scream, but propped in his stroller he was fine and slept eleven or twelve hours per night.

Mummyoftheyear · 26/10/2013 05:19

My DS is now 5. I remember him waking every hour and a half for 6 months. Even settling back to sleep was hard. He slept all day and drank little during the day - just lots of 'snacking'. I had a quick delivery (4 hours), so it may be nothing to do with your delivery. I wouldn't add to your difficulties by using a dummy as he will soon wake looking for it when it falls out. Wish I'd taken mine to a cranial whatsitcalled. Someone recommended that you do n I've heard that they can help.
I was not able to get my DS to eat or wake more during the day. Was impossible.
I was so exhausted that I used to worry that I'd drive off the road. My DS helped with night feeds. Was absolutely torturous. I didn't use a night nurse as expensive but looking back, I should've done so for at least 1 day a week. Are you sleeping during the day when he does?
Consolation: after 6 months (sorry if sounds ages) it just stopped. He slept. He woke during day times and ate!
Introduce solids at 4 months / consider it. Wish I had.
My second DC slept at night. Woke and ate during day. Was... so much easier.
Can your DP help?

brettgirl2 · 26/10/2013 07:55

I would do the opposite to most posters here. If he is only taking 1-3oz he quite simply isn't hungry.

If they really are hungry they don't do the messing.

Btw babies take massively different accounts of milk. By the age of 11 weeks dd2 would take 7oz in one go, dd1 it was 4-5oz. Bizarrely they weighed the same, no rhyme or reason to it at all.

Or he has silent reflux or something, I don't think it's normal op.

Original poster

AlmondFrangipani · 26/10/2013 16:07

Well believe it or not the feeding seems to have dramatically improved over the past 3 days...he's been taking 5oz bottles pretty consistently and having about 28-30oz a day! No idea where that has come from. Maybe the 12 week growth spurt?

I also thought we'd had some improvement on the sleeping as he did a 6 hour stint!!! Unheard of!! But he's got bronchilitois so u think he just felt ill as last night he was up ever hour after 1.30am. We are all very fractious today.

Going to try swaddling. We did it when he was little but he started to hate it so stopped. My only reservation is that he's started sucking his fist/fingers a bit and I don't want to stop him self soothing!!

OP posts:

Boomerwang · 26/10/2013 22:47

I'm sorry I haven't read the entire thread, please disregard this if you think I'm off track but all I have read from OP is that the baby doesn't necessarily need food, but definitely wants to feel secure with mummy. Cuddles, kisses, rocking and rolling might be all you need.

Boomerwang · 26/10/2013 22:49

I have a 19 month old who has never managed more than 2 oz in a feed... is that normal? I'm seeing bigger numbers here from much smaller babies...

Original poster

AlmondFrangipani · 27/10/2013 18:14

Boomerwang I would say from what I've learnt so far that nothing is 'normal'!! If you LO is gaining weight and is healthy then it is probably fine. Also yours will be on solids so less of an issue I guess.

OP posts:

Jaffakake · 27/10/2013 19:08

I agree with pp. if he's got plenty of wet & dirty nappies & is gaining weight he's just fine. Try feeding more in the daytime too. It may be worth getting tongue ie looked into a bit more if you feel it's causing him a problem.

I do remember how tired i felt after a 5 day labour, c-section & no milk for 6 days = a baby that didnt sleep! You've got a benefit in bottle feeding in that you can hand baby to someone else for a bit & get some rest. If I were your friend I'd prefer you ask for my help rather than suffer. You need a block of 4 hours sleep to feel better.

Original poster

AlmondFrangipani · 14/12/2013 05:49

8 weeks on and I'm still here trying to survive this. It's not got any better. He's still waking up every 2 hours and we're ruined. Run out of all ideas. Never even had a 'break through' night so there is no light at the end of the tunnel to make us feel positive that things will improve. I fear the nights.

OP posts:

RalphRecklessCardew · 14/12/2013 19:18

Have you thought about trying Millpond or Andrea Grace? Not cheap, but we used the former two months ago and (so far) it's been a bloody miracle.

Clarabell78 · 14/12/2013 21:09

Does he have a dummy? Made a massive difference to my ds and I was completely anti dummy until I got so desperate I'd try anything!

Original poster

AlmondFrangipani · 14/12/2013 21:21

He's a very sucky baby has a dummy but that is now a problem in itself. He wakes up every 2 hours but can't self soothe so screams until he gets his dummy but then pulls it out his mouth and the cycle starts again. We keep putting it in but it doesn't work anymore but if you don't he gets hysterical.

What's Millpond etc? How did it help?

OP posts:

fl0b0t · 14/12/2013 23:47

You're doing a great job, so Firstly that's the most important thing.

My little boy is 14wks in Monday and I really can empathise. We have tried everything:Bath routine, whitenoise, dummy (rejected) going longer between feeds, warming the cot....

Ds is ebf and refuses a bottle so I can't get anyone to help with night feeds etc. Three evenings he has slept through ouut of the blue but the rest of the time he currently has gone back to going down at eleven and waking at 2, 4, 6, 7.30 as a minimum. It's hideous. Pale trelling me it is a phase doesnt help, and his evening sleep pattern shows no pattern linked to our daytime activity. Not a useful Comment full of ideas but you are not alone x

RalphRecklessCardew · 15/12/2013 07:04

Millpond's a sleep clinic. They get you to do a sleep diary and then talk through a sleep training approach with practical advice and follow-up e-mails and calls. I know you are very anti controlled crying, but they definitely wouldn't recommend it for such a young baby anyway, and they'll suggest a very slow, gentle approach if you say that's what you want. Andrea Grace is similar but comes to your house if you're in London and (apparently) is more AP. Not cheap (think hundreds of pounds) but it did make a huge difference to us. There's a Millpond book too - I promise I don't work for them.

TheMaw · 15/12/2013 10:44

Do you give him infacol OP? My DSis on baby gaviscon for silent reflux and the combination of the two made a massive difference to his comfort.

Original poster

AlmondFrangipani · 15/12/2013 17:59

Thanks for the responses. I've had a look at the Millpond website and it looks promising. Going to see how we go when we start weaning and if that doesn't work then we will try them. He's being treated for silent reflux and on Omeprozole but to be honest I'm not sure how much that is the problem anymore.

After 2 weeks of hideous waking up every 2 hours he managed to go down at 7pm, woke at 10.30pm for a feed, then at 1.30am for a feed then awake at 6am! Miracle!

OP posts:

fl0b0t · 16/12/2013 05:57

Amazing! well done baby and mummy!

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