I don't know how to survive this...

[AlmondFrangipani]

I haven't slept for 11 weeks since my baby was born. He doesn't sleep for more than an hour and a half at night and I'm beyond exhausted. I know why they use sleep deprivation as a torture technique. I cry most days and struggle to enjoy the good bits of being a Mum . How do you survive this???

Hi OP, have these replies helped at all?
My DS is the same with pushing the bottle out with his tongue if not interested. I went through a few weeks - about the same age your DS is - where I actually hated feeding him and would be crying about it. People say of you're FFing to up the oz during the day to help sleep but neither of my kids would ever take more than they wanted. If we fed them more often DD would eat less, DS would just refuse. With DS what I found helped him take a better bottle was to try and leave him a little longer between feeds working out to 4 hours by keeping him asleep or distracted.
Now my DD actually sounds more like your DS at night and she too was delivered by forceps in theatre with lots of complications for me. What worked for us was to rock, shhh, pat her back and give her a soother - apparently all that kind of makes them not be able to concentrate on crying or something. Another thing which you're probably doing is to sleep in the day. It he's awake at night pop him in a sling an do your housework (the bare minimum!) then so you've nothing on your mind but sleep when he wants to. And he will figure it out OP - hang in there xx

Thanks so much for the messages, they are definitely helping.

I too thought 35oz was a lot and was frustrated with the HV for pushing that with me. I guess he just takes what he needs/wants! I too find he is better if he goes longer between feeds. For example today I tried every 2 hours and he took 0.5-1oz at a time whereas this afternoon he went 3 hours and had 4oz!

I'm going to try something else in the night rather than feed him. He has a dummy so initially put that in again and shush him back to sleep. My DH and are also trying a 'split shift' in the night so were both getting some sleep at least.

He had his tongue tie cut but it didn't improve the breastfeeding by much. I personally think it was too late (4 weeks) by then and he couldn't re learn (and my nipples were ruined by then)!

He is 3 months on Friday so I'm hoping we start turning a corner soon! Thank you!

Oh and I have no idea why he wakes up in the night. He is worst from 2am onwards where he wakes every 1-2 hours. He tends to start grizzling which then turns into a wail if you ignore it for too long. He's sleeping on a reflux wedge on his back to help with the 'suspected' reflux!

Does he have a dummy? Sometimes they need help to settle and my DS loved his after a bottle.

Ok so does he always fall asleep by sucking? if so, maybe he has learned that that is how to get back to sleep. So he's semi waking every few sleep cycles during the night - this is normal, we all do it - but whereas adults can just go into the next sleep cycle by themselves, he needs something to suck in order to get there. this might explain why he's waking so often - nothing wrong with him, just inability to put himself back into the next sleep cycle. So if you can teach self settling you should see a massive improvement. I think moving to a dummy and shh pat/stroking is a good first step (do this at bedtime first as the urge to sleep is strongest then), then once that works maybe see if you can lose the dummy and just do stroking, then see if he can get to sleep totally by himself... may take a while!

He does have a dummy and is very 'sucky' so that could explain a lot. I'll see if I can do some reading on self settling. Was considering some sleep training but it all seems quite hard core to just let them cry it out!

there's lots of versions of sleep training, cry it out is the most extreme and not necessary - look up no cry sleep solution, gradual retreat and controlled crying...

Also pick up put down sleep training - you don't let them cry with that as soon as they are upset you pick them up and cuddle until calm then put them back down again, once they are upset you pick them up again until calm and so on and so on.

I actually wonder if the baby whisperer would be a good read for you too.

Agree with galwaygirl our dd 6 months is very sensitive too noise , partner snore's has too sleep in another room, others in the house work shifts , slightest noise wakes her , be the house busy or not , things are getting better but still is disturbed frequently, just have too sooth her and put her low tone music on, rarely feed her she will let me know if she is thirsty or hungry., or needs nappy changing. different kind of crying will not settle if in need.

I know you said cosleeping didn't help but if it could be the sucking my two were very sucky babies and I co sleep with DS so I can just pop the soother in when he stirs at all - catch him before he wakes himself.
I tried the baby whisperer with DD and think it probably helped a bit. I would never try controlled crying etc as it would add to my own stress plus I'm not convinced sleep training helps and felt after DD that I had wasted a lot of time trying to get her to sleep in her cot etc instead of just doing whatever works! But the baby whisperer is worth a read I reckon.
Glad to hear the replies are helping. You're not alone and this will improve. Great plan splitting the night with DH, do whatever it takes to get as much sleep as you can!
DD has just come in to me and DS after 11 hours in her own bed - she's a great sleeper now

He's far too young to do cry-it-out or controlled crying - I'm not personally a fab of either however if you are going to do them its not recommended until 6 months minimum.

My DS was similar at that age, I used to go to bed at 9, DH would do the 9-12 shift, I'd do 12-6 then DH would take over from 6-8 and get ready for work during that time too. At the weekend we would each do 1 full night, and 1 lie-in (til 10/11am). Made things far easier to cope with!

My instinct is not to do 'cry it out' or 'controlled crying'. It would make me more stressed and anxious than I already am! I'll give the Baby Whisperer a read. My friend lent it to me but u haven't had a chance to read it yet!

galwaygirl how did you stop co sleeping with your LO? I guess some part of me doesn't want to move on to another dependency and have something else to wean him off.

Do you guys think I need to wean him off the dummy somehow?

I can empathise totally.

My LO woke every hour or so for the first 12 weeks and it got to the point where I just didn't know how to go on. She wouldn't sleep in her cot during the day either so I had to walk her for about 3 hrs each day - always the time when people said to me to catch up on sleep which was obviously impossible!

Even though I didn't want to co sleep we ended up succumbing to it as it was the only way she'd sleep a tiny bit more, but then I couldn't relax. I tried everything under the sun though and nothing really helped.....until she just changed. It wasn't a big change and it was very gradual but now, at 11 months, she only wakes once or twice a night in general. She's still not the best sleeper and will cry out and struggle to self settle but the amount of times this happens is getting less and less.

Like you my family live a long way away so there was no one to relieve me during the day when my partner was at work. I found that so hard. Try and talk to friends and if you break down and cry, you break down and cry, they will understand.

Please believe me when I say it does get better and there will be a chink of light at the end of the tunnel.

Have you got a good sling and do you use it in the house? Ds was like this and it didn't occur to me until he was about 12 weeks that I could just keep him in a sling like the moby or caboo and do things like that. I literally did not put him down for months after that - but he was happier upright, he slept better and I could at least go out and about without a screaming baby in a buggy. I used to just sit down when he slept and let him sleep on me. I could not put him down in anything without screaming - not a cot, not a bouncy chair, not a buggy and not a car seat! He is 5 now and I don't have to carry him in a sling anymore .

don't ditch the dummy if it's working even if only partially. I wonder if the reflux pillow might be an issue now. does it stop him rolling from back to side and vice versa? you might find once he can move onto his tummy and back again he'll be a lot happier. my ds only ever slept on his tummy and my dd on her side.

It will get better. how does he sleep in the day?

My first was like this, I know the general consensus on here is that Gina Ford is the devil incarnatebut her contented little baby book routine worked for us. He went from crying/screaming 18 hours a day without it to grizzling for 20 mins maybe twice a day at put downs on it. Worth a try? You have my sympathies.

Hi, I definitely wouldn't ditch the dummy. There are benefits to them and as baby gets bigger he will figure out how to get it back in. MAM do glow in the dark ones and we used to throw a load of them in the cot with DD!
I'm still cosleeping with DS. He is only 4.5 months. I have a cot attached to the bed but he prefers to aleep in the middle of The bed. I will probably move him into that, then side up on cot, cot moved away a bit - all at a pace he is happy with. With DD I used to have to let her sleep literally on me - lying across my tummy. I'm a really light sleeper and made it as safe as possible but I still worried a lot. DS is happy to lie beside me. I found with DD that she was fine going into the cot on her own eventually. Once she could sleep properly she didn't mind, she just needed me for that first while. And like I say she loves her own little bed in her own room now.
DS will sleep in his buggy sometimes during the day. I promised myself that this time I would just go with whatever it takes for us all to get some rest and not worry about 'bad habits' etc. Babies change so much so quickly. You just need to do whatever you can to get rest now and try not to worry too much about a few months down the line as life will be totally different as will your baby.
It's really tough having a non-sleeper. I know a lot I my friends thought we were making a rod for our own backs etc by cosleeping with DD and just being very soft (which I think is a natural instinct). I remember now I found the baby whisperer good for giving me an idea of general timings for a routine of sorts which helped a lot. I think it gets a lot easier when they can move more and make themselves comfier.
I also think that comforting them as much as possible and making them feel secure helps them eventually be good sleepers (or as good as they can be!)...

I was wondering about the reflux wedge too. He hasn't rolled on to his side yet but I've read they become redundant at that time as babies end up slumped at the bottom of the cot once they can move around more. I might experiment without it one night to see if there is a difference!

I have read Gina Ford as another friend swears by it but as my LO doesn't feed well either it's pretty useless as it relies on you being able to get all the calories in during the day and I just can't. I also can't live on than kind of strict routine!

I have a sling which I do use, but ironically he does nap well in the day in his cot or buggy. I've been trying white noise that seems to be helping him settle a bit too.

Decided to keep the dummy, don't need to add to the stress by trying to take it away! He's started to find his thumb/fist so I'm hoping he can self sooth that way in a few weeks/months! I know I can't take that away but if it means he sleeps better then I'm happy with the trade off!

The HV is coming Thus so ill see if she's got any more 'helpful' suggestions...

Random question OP: what flow teats are you using on your bottles? Are you still on the level one teats? Cos I just wonder if your baby is only have small feeds cos he is having to suck really hard to get the milk out? Sometimes big strong babies need to move up to the faster teats in order to feed efficiently.

And if they're stuck on the slow teats they can get frustrated and pull off the bottle/give up after a small feed. Might be worth trying a level 2 teat? Or a 'variflow' one uf your brand of bottles has them? They are suppose to respond to how hard your baby sucks and give them more milk quicker of they suck hard. Might be worth a try.

good tip about teat flow. might also relieve any wind if he is sucking too hard and consequently taking in air.

have you tried white noise? saved us here.

No baby that age should be taking 35oz Sorry for the hijack but should a baby this age really not be getting this much milk?!

I am more or less exclusively bottle feeding now, and the Aptamil guidelines are 6 fluid ounces 5 times a day. That is 30oz and my baby often needs this plus an extra bottle even just a couple of ounces, and I struggle to get him to 3 hours between feeds.

I've tried what feels like every bottle/teat combo available!! Settled on MAM bottles with a level 2 teat. These seem the best for him and he seems to gulp less air too.

We've use white noise. It tends to help a bit but nothing dramatic!

I agree that 35oz is too much but he's nowhere near 30oz either! Yesterday he too 18oz!! Rather than x5 6oz feeds he takes 8-10 feeds of roughly 2-3oz.

So last night we tried not feeding him during the night and he managed to go from 9.30pm - 4am. But he only took 3oz at 4am and still woke up every hour looking for the dummy so not sure how successful that was!! Will persevere though...

Poor love - really feel for you, DD1 was like this too. What worked for us was DH taking charge when we were both at the end of our tethers and helping me see that I was terrified of damaging dd by not getting everything perfect at this stage. Maybe that is worth you considering? This approach was damaging our whole family as we ALL needed sleep. Even though I hated the idea of letting her cry because I wanted to communicate back automatically, he helped me see that I didn't absolutely always have to and we were all happier as a result. In practice for us (dd was about 9 months) she cried on / off for 45 mins one night, much less the second then fine. Slept and fed and was generally much more settled afterwards. With dd2 I was more tuned in to why and when I was responding from week 1 and life was tonnes easier. I know some people really hate letting a baby cry at all, but sometimes this needs to be balanced with needs of whole family - destroying parental sanity through sleep deprivation I would guess will potentially cause more damage to the child in the long run. Best of luck, you will find your way. It is Ok to put your sleep needs first at this state if that suits you xx

DD had similar feeding issues to what you are describing. With her I found variflow teats made a huge difference as they can the regulate themselves how much milk flows depending on the sucking. I also used to find that teats can get almost slowed down and blocked. Before you give him a bottle hold it upside down and squeeze. If the milk doesn't seem to be coming out very well then sterilise a pin and push that through the hole and check the valve is working properly. Again, this problem went away with variflow.

We also gave DS a raggy for self settling. He used to try and suck his thumb so we boil washed a piece of soft material and he used to sort of wrap his fist in it and then suck the whole thing. That and white noise used to knock him out and he was then sleeping through and has done ever since. Good luck.