Constant, petty bickering between sisters..at a loss - dh constantly furious with them.

[IHeartEnid]

I'm a bit of a softy parent really, one of those annoying 'come here and have a cuddle lets all talk about our problems' types. But when the dds (6 and 3) are bickering constantly, I tend to lose any vestiges of patience.

Do you punish? HOW do you punish if you don't know who is 'right'? Things like: "dd2 stop copying me" "dd1, dont push me with your foot" "MUMMEE, dd2 kicked me" "MUMMEE dd1 won't share her toys"

they seem to veer wildly between hating each other nd lovng each other - gorgeous dds on their own but together they are a nightmare. Dh has totally lost his patience and just bellows at them.

I am willing to believe behaviour is worse since arrival of dd3 9 weeks ago but would like some advice/support in dealing with it...

Last night I tried to read them a story in my bed while feeding dd3, dd2 started burrowing under the covers and dd1 kept pushing her with her foot, in the end I stopped reading adn sent them both to bed then felt wretched. I think I am just a walkover as a parent

We do separate book-reading too. They both get ready for bed at the same time and then they each get 15 minutes of book-reading. If both of us are around, we take it in turns (strictly) with each of the DDs. If it's just one of us, we read to DD2 first and DD1 can either listen or do her own thing and then to DD2. DD1 can endlessly protract the whole event - choosing a book, deciding where to sit, refusing to listen to the book, wanting to play cards instead - so we got a 15 minute sandtimer. DD2 gets one turn of the sandtimer and then we put her to bed and turn it over again for DD2. She has our undivided attention to do whatever she wants during that 15 minutes - be read a book, play a game or just p*ss around - but when the sand has gone through, that's it. I think 30 minutes would be fairer, but two kids, 30 minutes each - I'm just too tired!

I also wouldn't worry about the holidays. I find the more time mine spend together the better they get on. You find your rhythm again as a family.

in dd's half an hour, she can choose what she wants to do - most of the time, she just reads but sometimes, she chooses to come down and chat to me while I'm cooking supper and I must admit, I do really enjoy that time I have with her

(also Enid, dd 'pretended' to feel sick at school twice in the last 2 weeks and got sent home - I thought she must be having some problem at school (or some weird tummy thing) but finally, at the beginning of this week, she admitted that she felt sad that ds got to come home at lunchtime and she had to stay at school so wanted to come home early too. It really pulled my heartstrings and we don't have a third child to add into the mixer. I do think they are tired and long to have a few half days and a bit more time being able to do what they want rather than work)

I agree FoxinSocks - DD1 is exhausted and her behaviour with both DD2 and us has slumped. If it was me at home rather than a nanny I would just keep her off for a few days, so that she can make the final push until the end of term. Not sure that I can really swing that with our nanny though!

I used to fight really badly with my sister and my mum used to just leave us to it. Love her to bits now.

Puddle - like the "come back in 5 mins and tell me what you've agreed". V. positive - will try that!

I'm laughing out of weary recognition at quite a lot of these. Our slight problem is that DS (now 4.8) was a somewhat boisterous toddler when DD (now 2.9) was born and it was drilled into him On Pain Of Death that there was zero tolerance in manhandling etc his sister. She, of course, has now turned into a Complete Minx, although the "no hitting DD" rule remains in place. Accordingly, DS is powerless to give DD the thump she so richly deserves, and has to escalate every problem to us (and I do mean every problem: offences I had to mediate yesterday evening include "talking to me in a really nasty voice" and "looking at my felt tip pens".)

I definitely agree re splitting bedtimes: DS really needs it to have a bit of time on his own. We have always been quite good about letting him do a couple of things which she is not allowed to. Hats off to those who turn it into a dedicated "love-in" period: quite often I just potter around starting to make supper and DS gets a chopping board and little knife out and does some chopping of vegetables with me and we chat about things. (Quite often I put on "Mega-Structures" and curl up on the sofa with him with a glass of wine!)

I'm one of 4, with one brother either side of me quite close in age, and I think fighting is pretty much inevitable - or it was when I was growing up. Actually, its a skill I'm quite proud of. Sometimes I look at people in meetings who are annoying me and think "I just bet I could sort you out if needs be, mate!"

I get this too - mine are 11, 9 and 6 and experts in winding each other up. However, they are also old enough to understand that Life Isn't Fair. When one of them comes complaining I always start with two questions - (1) You're not about to tell tales are you and (2) Is this something worth potentially getting in trouble for. This tends to weed out the minor bickering quite well.

I do agree with other posters though that the best way to avoid it is by giving them plenty of individual time and attention - easier said than done though. I have just restarted reading a bedtime story to my 11 year old and it's brilliant - we get 15-30 minutes of individual attention/chat and she has really reacted well and is much more able to rise above the provocation she gets from dd2 (who is usually the one that starts trouble but so good at it that she never gets caught and it's really difficult to punish someone for something you didn't see and have no evidence of).

The downside of the new arrangement is that my evening doesn't really start until a lot later but (at least at the moment) I am happy to prioritise my children over dinner.

Oh, I so love this thread. Suddenly the shouts of "She's SITTING ON ME!!!" It's MINE!!!" and "NAooooouuu..." seem quite normal.

The thing is, it's so wearing that I don't even know if I have the energy to modify bed-time. Except by emigrating and leaving no address.

...and bedtime, of course, happens at a time when one is oneself tired and hungry and in need of stories oneself...

yes and I also have a howling bundle with a 'screamy red face' to throw into the bedtime mix...

MI - thats why I eat with the kids (that and the fact that dh isn't home till late and we have scarily different taste in food)

Can't do stories whilst hungry. I would sympathise with Goldilocks too much.

My favourite is the exaggerated showing of some forgotten - and usually fairly pointless - object, creating an immense and insatiable need for it, and then whisking it away with a "you can't have it". Ah, just made for a career in advertising, DD

And/or the uncovering (usually by the smaller one, for once faintly less in the wrong) of a long unloved and really quite pointless toy...which is then grabbed with a heartrending plea of "It's MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!"

she can set up an agency with dd1

current faves are

'dd1 did a pumpkin face at me'
'dd2, think of a name for a horse' 'Rosie' 'no thats not a horse name, call it Thunder''No I wnat to call it rosie''Ok thunder, come on'
'MUMMEEEEEEEEEEE I want to call my horse rosie and dd1 wont let me'[immense amount of tears and wailing]

I do think it's mean of DD2 to sit on DD1 (who is two years older but really quite fragile-looking), I must say. And then snigger.

Enid re: screamy red faced baby (or is screamy red face you? Sounds a lot like me at that time of day...) - poor you. Do you read through gritted teeth? I find I may start in a huffy clenched way, but so long as I've persuaded relevant dd to select a story i like to read I mellow out as I go along. (Its all me, me, me )

When dd2 was a baby I'm sure listening to My Naughty Little Sister stories soothed her. She must've heard them in-utero (sp?) as they were big favourite of dd1 at the time.

Could I get away with blaming dd1 for introducing many 'naughty little sisterish' ideas to dd2 via her choice in bedtime reading??? Now there's a thought.

dd2 obsessive about my naghty little sidterr

I think having the baby there as well does make it all a lot harder Enid. When DD was that age I usually left stories to DH. Although there were days when he was away and I had to try and breastfeed and read simultaneously. But that stage will only be another few weeks before you can manage DD3's feeds a bit better.

Message withdrawn

v interesting thread. my dds (6 and 4) are just the same. On the whole I try to ignore but when it's driving me round the bend and one or both are appealing to me for mediation I do a sit down thingy. I say "both of you sit down on the floor right now and be quiet" I abolutely refuse to listen to a word either of them says until thay are sitting - on the floor in front of me and are both quiet. When they are sitting (which actually now takes no time at all) I ask them both what happened. I listen (ish ). I tell them both to say sorry and repeat any general rules like - there is no excuse for hitting ever and if you can;t play nicely together play seperately and then i tell them to go away and play. I don't really mediate and I don;t offer any solutions - but I think it kind of works because it's an exercise that acts as a distraction - they both feel they got to have their say and they usually both feel happy that the other one had to say sorry. I've also started doing a sweet pot - which is joint - not a pot each. sweets in for good behaviour, out for bad, shared out on Saturday morning. The sitting down thing works for me too. allows me to shout but gives me something specific and useful to shout that seems to achieve something, instead of stop it etc which just doesn't work.

dd2 came downstairs last night complaining that dd1 was calling her smelly mediterrenean stink-bomb. How exactly is one meant to keep a straight face?

lol

we had dd2 in tears last week because dd1 had called her a 'flat faced butt sniffer' (courtesy of Homeward Bound the Movie)

Can't advise as a parent (have one DS), but I usd to fight with my little sister and I felt I was entirely in the right because she was so f*** infuriating! She used to sneakily nip and scratch me to get me to do something back to her, then go crying to our parents. She'd want whatever I had and cry and whinge if she wasn't as good at things. I wanted to kill her. Then adults would have the nerve to lump us in together! (I'm sure it was hard for her too in her own way...) All I wanted was for people to recognise me as an individual, and I hated being treated like two naughty peas in a pod. Of course it's so hard with a new baby, but i think time spent with them each alone and appreciating them as individuals could help a lot.

ggglompopo - like the idea but don't have a spare room. Downstairs loo too small??? This reminds me of most embarrasing moment EVER with dd1 and dd2 arguing - in the showers at singapore airport business lounge. Queue of smart ladies waiting for the showers and dd1 and dd2 SCREAMING at each other and WAILING in their cubicle with me in a towel with semi dressed dd3 at ankles having to come out of my shower to calm them down/bollock them 'nicely'(well, without swearing.)

They were TIRED and in a CONFINED SPACE. Two big No-Nos.