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Behaviour/development

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I'm going so wrong. Help.

83 replies

Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 14:36

A bit of background: My dd is almost 3. I am a single mum. dd is donor conceived so no father on the scene. I work 4days a week. dd has always been bright and spirited and loving and very much loved. I'm finding her ever incresingly bad and impossible to predict tantrums really hard to deal with and could do with some advice. The latest one just now has made me feel like I don't have a clue how to be a good mother. We'd had a quiet morning at home and she knew we were going to a friends birthday party this afternoon. She was watching a film and I told her she couldn't watch it all as we had to get ready to go but we'd watch it later. So at the time when I had to turn the tv off I told her what I was doing and turned the tv off. She started to scream. I approaced her saying something like come on dd, I told you we have to go. She then started to kick me. she kicks and hits me a lot when having meltdowns and it breaks my heart as I have never shown her this kind of behaviour although I admit that when she is tantrumming and behaving like this I have to bite my lip to retain my self control. I can't believe the anger that descends on me when she is out of control and I feel almost out of control too. Anyway, I tried to make her sit on the naughty step which is something I told her about only yesterday. But she wriggled and screamed and kicked until I had to let her go. she ran into the front room and j sat in her room as I needed to calm down. she was hysterically crying. After 5 mins I went calmly into her and tried to calm her down. but it made her worse. She was sobbing. I eventually got her into her push chair and she wanted to sleep. She calmed down but went all withdrawn and looked shocked and exhausted. I feel ill with worry that I am fucking her up and that this is only going to get worse. Some days she is delightful and she is extremely well behaved at nursery. she saves this behaviour just for me. I never thought my child would be like this. I am exhausted and I love her so much. what do I do?

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SJisontheway · 17/08/2013 23:12

Pictish, I think the op knows its unacceptable, hence looking for advice.
Sympathies op. My ds is similar. He's my 3rd and I'm at a bit of a loss. Will keep an eye on this thread for any constructive advice.

fififrog · 17/08/2013 23:14

Sorry half my mind is on Match of the Day! I meant to say...at least some tantrums to deal with.

pictish · 17/08/2013 23:14

That IS constructive advice. There is no other way of dealing with it.

Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 23:15

fifi- yes, sometimes I am just in the way it's true. But othertimes I know a hit aimed at my head was meant for me. She does that less than kicking. Maybe I do need to just get out of the way more instead of trying to calm her down.

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pictish · 17/08/2013 23:23

She is old enough now to be put in time out for example.

My ds2 who is 5 now, was the tantrum chucker from HELL, and still now has a temper.

As soon as he starts, he is put to them bottom of the stairs for five minutes...when he was three, it was three minutes.

If she keeps getting up, then keep putting her back as many times as it takes for her to understand that mummy means business, and she does her three minutes.

If she kicks off over not getting her way - time out.
If she hits or kicks you - time out.

Every. Single. Time.

Tantrums are normal, but must be managed. Violence is completely unacceptable and must be stopped dead.

sesamechoc · 17/08/2013 23:25

Hi.

I use bits and pieces from 3 fab books.

1.The behaviour chapter in the baby whisperer ( for up to 3 s) is very good for tantrums - in fact ds2 age 3 now says to ds1 age 6 " I'll help you calm yourself down" .

2.How to talk... - loads of mums on here recommended it and finally

3.Unconditional parenting by alfie kohn which me and DP think is the best and has, quite frankly, and I know this sounds a bit over dramatic but it's true , changed our lives - if you check out the amazon book reviews on it , people will say the same thing.

pictish · 17/08/2013 23:26

If you are not prepared to put the time in to regain control of your daughter's behaviour with consistency, then this problem will continue and escalate, and both of you will suffer for it.

She needs you to be in charge.

fififrog · 17/08/2013 23:26

DD does try to swat us out the way too, but it's still not deliberately aggressive. Only you know if she really means it. Just wanted to make you think about whether you really need to worry about aggression. I am personally more in tune with the first few replies - it's tough, she's normal and you'll both get past this soon.

pictish · 17/08/2013 23:28

Or you know...you can minimise it like other people on this thread and continue to be at her mercy, getting belted by a three year old.

Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 23:31

Thanks Fifi. I am also more in tune (as you very nicely put it) with the first lot posts.

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Awks · 17/08/2013 23:32

What's her sleep like generally - tell us how long and when she sleeps? Do you think she's tired?

Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 23:33

Sesame- I will look at the unconditional parenting book you recommend. I've read the How to talk book.

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TripleRock · 17/08/2013 23:34

When my DD is in full flow, she doesn't want to even be touched. She will push me away and the tantrum escalates.

I have always stayed with her but sat calmly a short distance away and waited for the anger phase of the tantrum to be over. I have learned to recognise when she is then ready for comfort/physical contact.

However, prevention is better than the cure. In the particular situation you describe, 1) tiredness. Is she getting enough sleep, nighttime and day nap? 2) In that situation I would have been giving my DD a countdown/ warning to the film going off. E.g. We'll be going to the party in 15/10/5 mins which means I'll be turning off the TV soon. Or words to that effect, followed up with offering choices such as, 'shall we put your shoes on before or after I turn off the tele?' or whatever else comes naturally.

Hope any off that makes sense, sorry I'm on my phone

TripleRock · 17/08/2013 23:34

*of

pictish · 17/08/2013 23:35

Good luck then. Suggest you buy a gum shield and a helmet though.

Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 23:42

Awks- I have to get her up early, around 6.15 to 6.45am, 4 days a week when I go to work. She naps at nursery on the days when we have to leave the house at 7am but not in the days we leave at 7.30am (its complicated I know). Her night time routine is good and she is always asleep by 8.45pm on work days. Weekends and my day off she rarely naps. She usually wakes once in the night but settles again fairly quickly. I know she is tired on days when I have to wake her up but those are the days she can nap at nursery. She only naps for around 45 mins.

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Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 23:45

Actually I do think she is still tired but she usually refuses to nap.

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Mondaybaby · 17/08/2013 23:48

Triple- I'm beginning to realise that touching her in mid flow doesn't help. And I probably didn't give her enough of a countdown today. I gave her one warning and maybe she had forgotten by then. That plus tiredness = explosion.

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pictish · 17/08/2013 23:52

In that situation I would have been giving my DD a countdown/ warning to the film going off. E.g. We'll be going to the party in 15/10/5 mins which means I'll be turning off the TV soon. Or words to that effect, followed up with offering choices such as, 'shall we put your shoes on before or after I turn off the tele?' or whatever else comes naturally.

I agree with all of that. I always offer fair warning of going out or whatever. 10 mins, 5 mins, time to turn the tv off now...that sort of thing. It does help to prevent a meltdown when they understand what is going to be happening.
Of course, it's not always possible, but where appropriate, it does help.

Alonglongway · 17/08/2013 23:55

I've been a single parent since mine were 1 and 4 and I do think that's a whole side of it. You have a lot of responsibility on your shoulders and it's really easy to tip into blaming yourself for doing something wrong.

My practical advice would be to make sure you withdraw your attention when she's having a tantrum and reward the good, calm behaviour with lots of positive attention. She can't kick and hit you if you've removed yourself - "mummy's going to have a cup of tea and I'll be happy to talk t you when you've calmed yourself down" - a more nuanced version of this still works on my DD1 and she is 15!

Is it worth having a word with nursery to see what tactics they use. DD2 was taught "count to 10 and start again" at that sort of age and we did it at home too and it was great. Similar to the above - kind of teaching them that losing it gets them nowhere so how about calming down and breathing, saying sorry and we'll take it from there.

TripleRock · 17/08/2013 23:57

Some helpful stuff here Janet Lansbury

I would also wonder whether 9/10 hours a night is really enough, especially on the days with no daytime nap. Is an earlier bedtime feasible, or if not can you encourage a nap e.g. buggy/car

MumnGran · 18/08/2013 00:02

Monday - I must admit that I looked at this thread, and then went away, but you have since been on my mind so have decided to post despite being a granny rather than a modern mum.

Being a lone parent is hard, even when it is by choice from the outset and you love the role. And you are doing a good job. For that alone - have some Flowers

When it comes to handling a tantrumming, kicking and hitting 3 year old, there are just a few rules that you need to stick to, and then apply them whenever the behaviours happen. Whenever. Wherever. Whoever else may be present. Even if you can see some reason why she has kicked off. The reason is irrelevant, because the response is still wrong.

What she needs to know is that you have an absolute line that she is never ever allowed to cross. And that crossing the line always always results in consequences she doesn't like. And the consequence is always the same. Do not keep varying what you do because the first time doesn't change the behaviour. Its a training process.
You sound very reasonable and sensible, and know which consequences will feel acceptable for you to use.

The response needs to be immediate. And you need to win immediately, because you have to demonstrate who is in control. There is nothing more frightening for a child than to know that no-one is in control, when they have 'lost it'. The time for reasoning comes later. When they are calm. in the situation you describe, I think naughty steps don't work because you are in a battle to keep them in place so the 'fight' is continuing.

For what its worth, this is how I handled it .....
Ideally, the situation would not descend into her hitting, because it stopped in its tracks with immediate time out in her room when she began to tantrum.
I gave one warning as the behaviour started? if you are want to be naughty you will go to your room ....mummy will count to 3"
This gives choice. And tells her what the consequence will be.
If you count, and the behaviour hasn't stopped .....Sweep her up, put her in her room, and do not go back in for three minutes. If she is fighting to come out, just hold the door handle.
After three minutes, ho in.
If all is quiet, give a cuddle, and have a chat about why she felt upset.
If the tantrum is continuing, repeat the choice she has ...count to three again, and leave again.

This might take multiple repeats the first couple of times you use it....but then it really does start to work.

If it had reached a hitting stage before you could stop it, I would have said very very sternly "you never hit mummy! that is very naughty and you are going to your bedroom". So there is no option for her to stop the tantrum to avoid the consequence....because she has already crossed the line.
Then handle as above.

Choice. Consequence........and above all, consistency.

This post was my opinion, and what worked for me before anyone had heard of "naughty steps". If its relevant for you the great. If not, I still think you will do a great job. She sounds a wonderful, bright, little girl, and I am absolutely sure you will handle this stage as well as you have done with the rest of the mothering.

pictish · 18/08/2013 00:04

I concur with you entirely mumngran. Good post. x

MumnGran · 18/08/2013 00:18

Oh, and FWIW, I think there is masses to be gained from not giving yes/no options for this age group because it avoids lots of potential (and un-necessary) confrontations.

"Put your sweater on" offers a possible negative response..
"Do you want to put on the red sweater or the blue sweater" offers only positives.

The strategy works in lots of areas.....shall we switch the film off now, or would you like to watch the advert first? would you like to put the train set or the cars away first? .......etc etc

smallchestofdrawers · 18/08/2013 00:23

First of all please, please ignore all your friends who tell you they've nipped tantrums in the bud-I doubt they have but if even if they have found the miracle cure for three year olds being three year olds, their time will come!

I'm no expert either, just another mum, but in this situation I suppose you could more (before the tantrum) by way of explaining that why she won't be able to watch the end of the film and showing you understand it is annoying not to be able to see the end of it. Giving lot of warnings that she'll have to stop watching. Planning when she can watch it again etc. (You may have done all that).

She's just too young to understand she has to sacrifice one good thing to get another.

Its not acceptable for her to hit and kick but the only thing I can think of is to tell her you are going to leave the room because she's hurting you and then leave her alone if she's safe.

Three year olds are very, very hard work.