Anyone experienced this pattern and what to do about it?

[Ledkr]

Dd is 2.3 and mostly sleeps through from 7/8 until 6am.
Nothing changes the early waking and I'm not massively bothered by it.
However, by 8am every day she is as miserable as sin.
Won't play or watch tv or literally everything I try. Sheiks puffy eyed and grizzles non stop. Drags me by the hand to different parts if the house pointing at things but doesn't really seem to know what it is she wants.
Will have some fruit but not keen on much else for breakfast. Keeps asking for milk. I really think she is tired but won't sleep despite me trying everything. She is doing it now. On and off my lap can't settle to do anything, hitting her sister.
I'm just so fed up with her. It's especially bad at weekends when I can't get out because dd1 is still asleep and dh is at work.
In the week though its the busy time as we are trying to leave for work or school and she's crying and taking her clothes and shoes off and lolling about on the floor in a lather of tiredness.
I'm really struggling with it.
Do you think it's the early start?
What can I do?

Bumping as I'm losing the will to live

My boy is 2 yrs 2 months. He sleeps from 7-7 most nights.
He can be like this, holding my hand and falsely crying, with tears!
Not at 8 am though.. It is mostly in the afternoon, 4-5pm.. I just call it the witching hour!
We used to put Room on the Broom on for 25 mins and it would generally calm things down.
Lately, he just wants me to sit down with him when chillaxing, which is fine. So, we just sit down and watch something for 19-20 mins. He sits next to me and I hold him close to me. Or he might climb over me, and my big bump (dc4 due in 4 weeks). He wants time with me, and I just sit with him for as long as I can.. Eg might have to get dinner on etc.
He's certainly got a little bit more clingy lately.

A lot of children start waking before they have finished their sleep quite at this age as they need the toilet! Maybe give her a change nappy or take her for a wee , give her a drink of milk and pop her back in bed ? It will pass I think it's just a phase they go through . Does she nap in the day ? She must e very tired if she isn't as that does not sound like enough sleep ?

Thanks for replying.
I expect that at that time tbh but not an hour and a half after she's woken up. She also wakes up crying but is happy when we go in.
Since 8 she has cried and whinged and hit her sister over and over kicked me in the jaw over and over when I changed her nappy. Tried distraction and cuddles and food so has dd.
I'm getting pretty disparate tbh

She naps about 12 normally for about an hour (I wake her) or shed sleep about two or three.
When she starts at around 8 it definitely looks like she's tired but I can't get her to nap.
I'm close to tears here. It's wearing me down. I've shouted at her today and then rowed with lovely dd1 who just told me not to shout.
She's led on the sofa now I think she will sleep at last.
I'm going to try an earlier bedtime tonight.

Does she nap during the day?

Could it be that she actually needs more daytime sleep so she sleeps longer at night? I certainly notice my ds sleeps poorly if I disturb his naps...

Thanks.
She seems to nap around 12 either before or after her lunch
I try to leave her for around an hour or two of I'm busy.
Should I get her to nap longer then an earlier night.
I'm so confused but this can't go on. She's my fifth child and I've never experienced anything like it.from 8 am until she eventually goes to sleep its pure hell.
She's just started nursery two days 9-12 .

I would suggest bringing her nap earlier, say 10.30 ish... Or even before.
I know that doesn't work on nursery days though.

My boy normally goes down after lunch around 12 ish, but lately, I've been putting him down around 11.00, before lunch,I make sure he has milk and a biscuit or cracker or breadsticks do he won't be hungry.

He can have 2 hrs sleep and even 3 hrs sometimes! He is always ready for bedtime at 6.45, and falls asleep fairly quickly.

I just think he's on the go from 7 am, such an active, independent boy. And he's always happy to nap and go to bed. But, he does have older siblings, 8 and 4, and he's just slotted in.

Some days he can be really quite grizzly. But, I've found since I've sat down and cuddled, looking at a book or watching tv, diffuses it, if that makes sense, it's nipped in the bud.

Could you plan some 'down time' for 8am, if she won't nap? Like reading, TV or a trip out in the buggy?
I hope it is a phase that quickly passes.

Have you tried wake to sleep?

Hi Led I remember you from early waking threads... My DD who is a couple of months younger also sleeps 7.30-6.00 most days and is fine on it (I am not saying she isn't a whingey moanbag ever, but not because of tiredness). However she does nap 1h30-45 most days and some days has a 2hr+ and very rarely 3hr!! (am expecting this today as we've been on holiday and she's had v short naps three days in a row). It is very very rare for her to sleep longer than 11 hours at night, but she does seem to do her catching up at nap time if she's been especially tired.

What I'm getting round to is, is there a reason you wake her after an hour - does she not go to bed? Or is it just that it's not convenient. If it doesn't have a knock on effect at bedtime I'd be iinclined to let her sleep as long as she wants during the day if you can fit it around the other DCs.

Not tried wake to sleep as the early mornings do t bother us.
It would be great if she would nap earlier but I've tried everything and she just can't go off at all.
Today she slept 11.30 till 1.30 is nice and happy and ate a good lunch.
I am currently tiring her out at soft play and am hoping to get her down by at least 7. It will be interesting to see if she's better tomorrow.
She seems ok if at nursery or with my cm but I think it's just being bored at home.

Thanks fi yes I agree. I was waking her as a few times she's not gone down at night or woken at 4.30 Which I thought was from too longer nap.
Man I fed up with thinking about this all the time. My other dc just went to flippin bed and slept until the morning and had a nap if they felt tired

I too think you should try letting her nap as long as she needs, providing it doesn't make the early waking worse. It's worth a try. Ds is a bit older and still naps for between 1.5 and 2.5 hours regularly at about 1.30pm. The only rule I have is not to let him sleep later than 4pm or it pushes his bedtime back. He sleeps 11 hours at night from about 8pm till 7am.

Talk of the devil, 4pm and about to wake her from the 2.5 hour nap - I agree there are limits matana :)

Led I agree having to constantly analyse what's happening is pretty stressful! If you can somehow get her to catch up generally even if it means a couple of early mornings you might at least begin to be able to spot a pattern and know when it'll be a good or bad thing to let her nap longer...