baby sleep

[scobby]

Hi all. I have a 11 week old ds who I have major problems in getting to sleep. Bed time is not so bad - I think because of the routine we started form birth but nap time can be a nightmare. Every day he will cry for up to 2 hour before falling asleep - sometimes for only 30mins. It is heart breaking and really stressing me out. I get him to his cot at the first yawn - give him a cuddle, shut curtains etc. Have even bought a music sleep cd from the nct. I then go back and forth trying to calm him. I have yet to get him to sleep right through his long nap at lunchtime. I often give up and go out with the pram because he is screaming so much. I am shattered. He is also still up twice for a feed after the 10.30 feed - so I am not getting much sleep at night.
Does anyone have any other suggestions? I thought it would have started to get better by now.
:(

Sorry not much help but just to say that my DS was exactly the same. In fact during the day he only ever really slept in the pram or in the car. I used to pop him in the car then park up and grab half an hours kip for myself! It felt like it went on for a life time but it probably wasn't actually that long. TBH I think the cranky sleeper is more common than the drop off immediately type you always hear about.

A couple of my friend's babies slept well up until 3 or 4 months and have been wakeful ever since, mine (Touching wood as I type!)sleeps brilliantly now and so if I had to choose I think those who take a while to settle into their sleep pattern end up giving us a bit more of a break! Hang in there and just know that you are not alone.

My two were the same, just didn't like sleeping in their cots during the day. I'd either take them for a walk or put them in their buggies and wheel them to and fro with my foot whilst I lay down on the sofa....
I think some babies don't do the long nap at first, maybe your ds is happier with a few short naps and when he gets a bit bigger he'll sleep for a longer time.
Good luck, those early months are just bloody knackering and hearing them crying makes it all seem even worse.

Does his long nap have to be at lunchtime? Maybe that's not when he wants a long nap. I have several friends whose babies have their long nap in the morning.

Thanks all
At least I now know he is not a freak - other mums look at me in horror when I tell them. I can definetly tell when he is ready for a sleep and he will fall asleep easily when we are out - just tierd of walking round the block and back and forward to the shops. :)

My DS is and was the same. He's now 9 months and rarely sleeps during the day unless he's in the pushchair or car. I take a lot of walks! He usually only sleeps for 45 mins at a time too. Sometimes I think he's getting better but generally not.

We've given up fighting it and trying to get a routine or daytime indoor naps going. So we just go with it. If I want to do things around the house I often push him round the block until he is asleep and then sneak in with the pushchair.

The other thing is that your DS might not be emotionally ready to go for a daytime nap on his own. 11wks is quite young to expect that. It's also quite young to expect sleeping through - something that's happened to us a handful of times but no more! Our DS has settled a lot lately at night and will almost sleep through. But it's something that he's done naturally rather than us sleep training in any way. You may want to try putting your DS down for a nap 15mins before the first yawn is expected - I know that's worked for a lot of people.

Don't stress that your friends have good sleeper babies. Their next one will be a wakeful one and then they'll know all about it! Just go with the flow for the time being.

Have you tried a sling. Very soothing and you can help the baby get to a very sleepy or asleep state. And if they do cry in the sling it won´t be as long as it would in bed (imo and experience)

Also when they are in bed, I rock the gently while they are lying down. Helps soothe them. They then know you are there. Is he sleeping in anohter room?

It might help to have mroe time with him in the bedroom with curtains shut before lying him down.

At 11 weeks DS had his daytime naps in teh pushchair, in the car, in his car seat, or in his bouncy chair.

If he didn;t go to sleep while "in motion", he would fall asleep on the breast.

He wouldn;t sleep lying down flat eitehr in his cot or anywhere else.

He slept for a maximum of 45 mins for most naps, sometimes a bit longer in teh afternoon.

I kind of fell into a routine where I would plan to leave the house at a certain time each day - say 9.30 - whetehr to walk to the local shops, or go further afield. he would nap during that time. Then he would sleep again around 12pm, in his chair, and anotehr late nap around 4.30pm, again in his chair.

At teh time I stressed about it loads but looking back it's not caused any problems at all.

He started napping in his cot around 5-6 months, and was fed to sleep for naps until he was about 12 months.

From 13 months he slept for 2 hours after lunch in his cot, in teh dark - and still does at 2.2.

I would say, go with teh flow. Do what seems to suit you both at this stage.

Plenty of time for him to sleep alone and settle himslef when he's a bit older

Scobby, don't worry if lots of things 'go wrong' at the beginning - he'll settle down in a couple of months.

My ds3 (9 weeks) doesn't nap well, but I sometimes have to leave him yelling in the cot for ages as I'm making lunch for the others (or whatever), and ds2 flips out if I have ds3 in the sling all the time. I think babies just have to deal with some things they don't like, and their mums shouldn't stress out about it too much. We love them really and they know that really.

With all 3, after 2 months I stopped getting up for them at night after the 10.30 feed. A couple of nights of yelling and they sleep through to 7am. Don't feel bad about doing this as long as the baby is healthy and not too tiny. A paediatrician told me that 5 feeds is absolutely plenty by this age, and much better for the whole family (esp mummy) to get the baby sleeping through the night when young. Apparently they take much less kindly to being left to yell at night when they're a bit older. Check with your GP if you want to be sure it's OK for your baby.

Ds too was a nightmare. Actually took a couple of months to sort and the midday nap was the most difficult and last to get sorted. Just be utterly consistent and persevere. I would say to avoid the pram trick if possible because it sets up sleep associations.
I actually think ds sleeps really well now compared to his peers and it was definitely worth all the initial pain.

haven't had time to read all this thread, but my ds was just the same. slept well at night but was a nightmare to settle during the day. Eventually, I swaddled him and held him, writhing and struggling, red inthe face and angry, until after about 5 mintues he would succumb. Then, for a few days I held him for the entire nap, then I put him in his moses basket (after which he would wake after about 1/2 hour), after which time I would rock him back to sleep and let him continue to sleep in my arms. After about a week, I put him back to sleep in his m/b after I had got him back off, and within a couple of weeks, he was having two, 2 hour naps a day and has continued that to this day, is 6 months old now and goes down awake for all his naps/sleep. hth. .

Thanks guys
I will persevere with puting him down - got him in his cot at lunch time for 45 mins - then had 30 mins of screaming until he fell asleep for 1 hour 20 - some progress! If I can get some of the day naps sorted I may then have the energy to deal with the night wakings - more of a habit now than being really hungry.
:)

Hi Scobby

Please dont be offended by this post, but i am a little . 11 weeks is really so wee. You do sound tired, i know its exhausting at first - DD is now 7 months old, but i remember the early days so well. The trouble is, leaving babes to cry at this age is really no good for them, there's lots of evidence to show it can lead to behaviour problems and long term difficulties with managing anxiety and stress. I have struggled with whether to write this post, but figured it better that i do and then of course you can make up your own mind. All babies are different - some have a long nap at lunctime, some don't. most babies don't sleep longer than 45 mins at a time at this age, its just how babies are. Some will, but often only because they have learn't that there is no point crying because no one will come to comfort them, and so 'give up'. Its normal for a baby not to sleep through the night at this age too, they might not 'need' feeding, but they need comfort and love when they wake up all alone at night. (And they might need feeding too, but that isn't something i know a lot about, although DD still does sometimes)

But yes, mums need sleep and rest too. Is there anyone you can ask for help? can someone push ds round the park a couple of times a week for you? Someone else mentioned a sling - i used this all the time when DD was tiny - she nodded off as i wandered round the house and then i could sit down.

Some babies are definitly born a bit more cranky than others. But it will pass, baby will get better, he just needs a bit more help than some others to get to sleep just now.

And some of those mums are not telling you the truth about their own babies, honest . Or have very short memories.

My DD is now nearly 10 months old... And I do remember very well that until she was 4 months old, we had HUGE trouble to get her to have a day naps.. Everybody else baby seemed to have their long day naps and NOT MINE... I remember to feel so upset about it... So I used to put her in the pushchair(she would fall asleep straight away) and then come back home when she was waking up. I couldn't leave her to cry in her cot so that's why I use to take her out. My mother suggested that I should start to give her solid food(DD was 16 weeks) because maybe she wasn't getting enough and a baby sleep better whith a full stomach... So I did, and within 2 weeks, she was eating baby rice + milk (then sleeping 1 hour in the morning in her cot) and lunch was puree + milk (then sleeping 2 hours).. it was wonderful, I was breastfeeding at the time and obviously not getting enough to be able to fall asleep... Scobby, I wouldn't leave him crying for a day nap, some babies are more active than others... Nowadays, DD goes to nursery, she doesn't nap much there (no more than 1 hour a day!!!), and she is full of beans when I pick her up in the evening. But then over the week end, she naps for at least 5 hours a day... I am sure you are exausted, I use to feel like it until DD was 4 months old, you could try to sleep at the same time she goes to bed in the evening maybe??? Good luck and I am sure you are a wonderful mummy

My dd is 7 months now, and I could have written your post myself scobby about 5 or 6 months ago ( .. in fact I think I virtually did).

DD still never naps for more than 30mins at a time, and would cry if I didnt rock, buggy or feed her to sleep. You sound really anxious and tired you poor thing - it is so hard in those early months I remember it well.

What helped me was stopping trying to get her to have naps at certain times and just go with the flow. In the end she started to fall asleep on the breast once she was exhausted, or in the afternoon if I fed her and she didnt fall asleep I got the pushchair out and she would go straight off after about 2 mins of walking. I used to worry that she wasnt getting enough sleep as all the books said, but now as I have watched her develop beautifully and normally, I realised that she is getting as much sleep as she needs.

Also some babies still need feeding in the night - its knackering I know as dd still feeds twice in the night at 7 months, but I would rather get up with her than leave her to cry.

Good luck - let us know how you are getting on.

I think marytee's post is spot on.

I am also a bit and at your post.
Please don't let your baby cry this long.

bumbleweed & marytee... that's kind of what I was trying to say too - but I was being less commital!

It's really hard to see it, but things will improve and you will be less knackered. I just wish that I didn't waste the little energy I had on trying to implement some kind of pattern or 'good sleeping habits' when my DS was so young. If there is someone who can help you out by taking your DS for a couple of hours then take them up on that offer. And go to your bed for a nap (don't do the housework!).

Hope it all settles down, I'm sure it will in its own time.

Hi
I am not leaving him to cry for this long - I rock him, pat, walk about etc until he is really calm. If he can get calm. He eventually gets so over tierd nothing seems to calm him. Unusually for a baby he will not fall asleep with me holding him. Even if he did the moment I put him down he will wake and it starts all over again. This is for every nap at at least once during the night! Last night it took 1 1/2 hours after his feed at 4am to get him back to sleep.

scobby my DS is 11 weeks as well, when he gets over tired/won't settle for his day naps i've found that if I lay ont he bed next to him he'll sleep soundly, and we both get a bit of shut eye, it's not something we do every nap time but we do occassionally, the other things i've found help Joey is swaddaling, - he literally won't sleep unless his arms are pinned down. a typical day for us is to get up at 6ish have a feed/play/get dressed then he'll nap for approx 45 mins then want a feed/play again then will nap again and so it goes on, he's roughly on a 3 hour cycle i'm working roughly to the baby whisper's 3 hour EASY thingy - something which Joey's happy to go along with (more him than me he feeds we have a little 30 mins or so play then he sleeps, some days it works some days it doesn't)

i've also realised that he starts to come around after 30-45 mins or so, to start his nap he sleeps in his bouncer/baby chair, swaddled (also has a dummy initally) whilst I watch on/potter in the room, then once he's asleep the dummy's out and I go about getting dressed but come back around 30-45 mins ish for a quick cuppa and sooth him if he comes around and usually he'll go back down again.

other days thou (like today) he'll miss a nap completely and want to play but then he'll get cranky.

also DH is do the bath/bed thing at night gives me 30 mins on my own and him quality time with Joey. he's down in the crib between 8.30-9.00 and i'm up to bed by 9.30. doesn't always work but more often than not it will do.

hth, good luck.

(should also say I take the dummy out if he's not spat it out after about 5 mins once he's in the land of nod!)

Sorry scobby i really got the wrong end of the stick there - last you need when you just wanted some advice. It will get better soon, honest. Glad that little one knows that you are there for him and sorry again.

Ditto the age my dd2 is nearly 7 months and was exactly the same re short naps from 10 weeks to about 24 weeks ish when they lengthened. Dont stress about it the longer naps will return eventually, I had exactly the same with dd1 too again around 6 months it was sorted, so this time I just went with it, I know it's not easy sometimes when you're tired. Plus dd2 never slept any longer than 4 hour stretches til about 5 months when it went down to one night wakening then hurrah 26 weeks exactly she slept thru and has since. don't rush it, this time will pass, enjoy y our baby.

hi scobby - oh no your hour and a half last night sounds a nightmare - its so much harder in the middle of the night too. I hope you are managing to catch up on your sleep - lack of sleep can really get you down especially if you have had a crying baby to deal with.

Ironically after I posted a message to you a couple of days ago, my dd has had a couple of really funny days, a bit like she was 2 months ago - she has been resisting naps, getting over-tired and fussy, not going to sleep on a feed, and writhing in my arms instead of letting me comfort her. Blooming hard work and emotionally really draining - she has now eventually konked out for the night through sheer exhaustion!

Thanks Munz
Went back to swaddling - although he can eventually get himself out of it- anyway got 2 hours at lunch time yesterday in his cot. Probably a fluke but hear is hoping for today.
Still had an 1 hour 30mins of crying at 4am after a feed last night - seems to be a habit!

:( I really feel for you hon with that one, at night have u tried giving a bottle of EBM (if you're BF)? we've been doing it for about 2 weeks and Joey seems to settle back down a lot quicker and sleeps longer than on the boob, DH does the bottle/winds before Joey properly wakes up and I express using an electric pump downstairs. he lifts him from his crib gives him the bottle half asleep and inveriably Joey's asleep again by the end of it. I know some folk do it at about 11 as a dream feed but our little guy won't feed unless he's hungry so he has it about 1.30 ish then will sleep till about 5 - not idea but at least it's a chunk of sleep. (he takes 5oz as well - not sure whta your would need - might be an idea for the w/e when your DH/DP can help out if it back fires and you need sleep during the day)