Sexual behaviour between brothers

[Pinkypoops]

In the last year or so, my boys have started to play in a way that makes me uncomfortable but I´m not sure if I should worry or not.
They are 6 and 4 and the 6 yr old has already started masturbating from time to time although he is not very sexually aware in any other way.
When they play together physically, the elder one nearly always instigates touching of genitals, rubbing and pushing between his legs by the younger. Sometimes they kick and punch there too, but I can tell that the eldest is enjoying the feeling.
I worry that the younger one is being influenced a lot by this- it´s one of the few times his big brother is nice to him, so could def affect his sexual perceptions in future, couldnt it?
I have tried: forbidding it, punishing, separation, calm and kind talking to explain why it´s not a good way to play.....basically every approach.
Am I over-reacting??
It´s just that, were my elder a teenager or adult doing these things, I would consider it sexual abuse! AIBU??

Not sure what to advise. There's a lot of laughter about willies and bottoms between my boy girl 7 yrold twins, but they don't touch each other. If they get a bit carried away I just say it's private-they get the same message from school and grandparents and so forth..Ds does fiddle with his penis, but I wouldn't say it was masturbation-just the fiddling that boys and girls seem to do. He's certainly not interested in touching his older brothers or anything like that.If ds1 who's 10 fiddles with himself I tell him not to do it in front of people.

The only thing I can think of is a friend had a then 2 yrold dd who was getting a lot of obvious enjoyment from rubbing herself-and did it in public a lot . The Health visitor advised tight nappies and saying 'hands up' as a distraction-she lost interest in the end.

I know another friend who asked the school nurse for advice about inappropriate behaviour.

It would concern me and I would be asking professionals for guidance.
I would be possibly concerned that somebody else was modeling inappropriate play?

Thanks, Defineme
I have thought about that, but can´t think of anyone they spend time with who would have that opportunity other than friends at school and their own dad, my DH....and I really don´t think it´s him! I have asked kind of vague, leading questions, but don´t think there´s any influence there.

I think it's probably normal, most things with kids seem to be on a spectrum of 'never does it' to 'never stops'. He's sounding more up one end than the middle...

I do feel a bit sorry for the younger child. We're the elder alone I'd say just stern words. I agree there's an issue of politeness as well here! Could u ask the HV? School? I think u need advice but I also don't think it's outside normality really. I don't want u to think ur kid is strange. Naughty step when he does it? It is bullying to the younger, if it was pinching u would so I'm not sure this is very different...? Iyswim?

I'd just tell him to stop. Ie, we don't touch each other's private bits. It,s ok to touch your own but not each other's

I was just going to say the same as orangesandlemons. Explain that those parts of your body are private and for you to touch only nobody else.

Thanks all
I have told them to stop, calmly and patiently as well as in shouty/ranty manner .
Does no good as they just start again when I leave the room...grrrr. I can´t be watching them every second and they know that. Discipline is ALSO a major issue, but that´s a whole other matter! Oh dear...

Does the 6 year old know it's inappropriate? Does he respect his teacher? I have been known in emergency situations to say something along the lines of (very matter of fact tone ) 'I'm very concerned that you're still doing this and I'm going to talk to your teacher about it because I think they would want to know...' That can crack it with socially embarrassing stuff like this.
If he really doesn't get that it's not the thing is there another reason? My ds1 is asd and it took him much much longer to understand stuff like that.
I think I would focus on the positive: lots of small rewards for playing together nicely and I would actually get in there and supervise/model some positive play too.

Perhaps if you sorted the discipline and they got on with each other better this might calm down a bit too?
Perhaps you could start a discipline thread?

True.... The disciplining is quite a nightmare at the mo and not helped at all by easily -manipulated dad who won't stick to his threats and elder child with incredibly strong persistence!
But you know what? I think that telling the teacher idea is fantastic!! Def going to try it as he is very good at school and loves/respects teacher. Yay! Will do that and let you know how it goes xx