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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

strict parents only please ...

25 replies

fisil · 04/04/2006 19:29

... and I know this is a similar thread to another one this evening, but ...

Ds2 will just not take "no". He is nearly 11 months. With ds1 we always said "no" and he would immediately stop. We always knew how lucky we were, but now realise that we don't have a plan B.

For example, this morning I said "no" when ds2 opened the cupboard in the kitchen that he constantly opens. When I turned to look he was wagging his finger at me! When ds1 is watching TV ds2 goes and stands in front because it makes ds1 come and pull him away, which makes ds2 laugh.

Now, I know he is not doing it to be nasty, he is doing it because it is good fun, and he likes the game. Basically we know that "no" isn't working, and that we need to find a different approach. But that's where we're stuck and need your help. However, I refuse to go for cupboard locks, play pen, anything like that. I strongly believe that he has to learn, and that we can help him to. We just have to find a way.

Any helpers?

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MadameDeMars · 04/04/2006 19:35

Well that was my stand with the DTs, but I compromised and tied the cupboard doors.

They are all very different and respond to different things. Distraction sometimes works.

Now I'm a really strict parent. I don't always comment on some of the things that others allow as I recognise that their style is completely different to mine.

However, he is only 11 months. The DTs are just over 2 and are finally understanding the No word.

I'm sorry that I have no real answers for you. You have my sympathy. (I'm convinced that if the DTs or DD2 had been born first I wouldn't have had any more. DS1 was such a poppet. Never got past 2 when I counted to 3!)

starlover · 04/04/2006 19:38

he's only 11 months, and i think it's unusual for a child of that age to both know the word no and what it means AND abide by it.

with ds we have been consistently using no, and removing him from the situation.

At times when he repeatedly goes and does it again and again he gets told no and then shut in his playpen for a few minutes.
When he's let out if he does it again we say no and put him back in the playpen.

It does seem to be getting through though, and at 14 months he is getting much better at telling when I really mean NO!

starlover · 04/04/2006 19:41

IMO prevention is often better than cure. so when ds was constantly opening kitchen cupboards I put a stairgate up so he couldn't get in there!

serenity · 04/04/2006 19:43

If mine ignored No at that age, I'd move them away and repeat it, and keep doing it (moving them further and further away, I think we ended up out of the room a few times) All you can do is keep repeating until it either sinks in orthey get bored DSs weren't too bad, but DD is terrible. She finds it all hilarious (she's older than your DS2 though), but all I can do is keep perservering, and not give her attention if she's doing it just to annoy.

FairyMum · 04/04/2006 19:43

I don't think it's unusual for an 11 month-old not to listen to the word no. It's not really about being strict I think. It's also about choosing your battles. I would put the locks on the cupboards or whatever to make your life a bit easier through this stage and just keep saying 'no'

JoolsToo · 04/04/2006 19:46

I was quite strict - always said 'No' firmly and if necessary physically removed from where they shouldn't be - but, I do feel 11 months old is a bit young to be getting the response you'd like.

My advice is just keep on with the firm 'No' at this stage.

Angeliz · 04/04/2006 19:47

I'm with fairymum, i'd just get the locks.
Personally i think he will learn but not that early. He's still so little to understand.
My dd is 13 months and is just getting to the stage where she'll cry in sadness then bloodymindedness when she doesn't get her own way all the time. I couldn't bear her in all the cupboards and everything though.

lizziefromwifeswap · 04/04/2006 19:48

I gave my dds a cupboard then I could redirect them over to it :)

Angeliz · 04/04/2006 19:49

OOOHH that's a good idea!

Original poster

fisil · 04/04/2006 19:49

Thanks all. I am reassured by the "stick with it" and to be reminded that 11 months is very young. Also you're right that it mustn't be a big deal - he is enjoying the whole game of it, whereas really we shouldn't be giving it attention.

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Original poster

fisil · 04/04/2006 19:51

lizzie - with ds1 that worked perfectly. With ds2 he has 2 cupboards that he loves - his cupboard and the one with the plates in it. When he opens the one with the plates we say no firmly and then take him straight over to his cupboard and he plays over there for a bit, and then comes back to the plates again!

OP posts:

mcmudda · 04/04/2006 19:52

An 11 mth old's memory is the problem, not the understanding of the word "no". I used babysigning with ds so I would say "no" firmly and put my hand up like a policeman stopping traffic IYSWIM. THat way there was a visual clue as well as a verbal one. I would hold the hand up longer than necessary too as I was speaking to him.

At that age they just hear the last part of a sentence and so ignore the word "Don't" and just hear "open the cupboard" or maybe just "cupboard". If you use the sign a little in front of their face, as well then there's no mistaking what you mean.

We got to the stage where if we were round at someone's house and he was up to no good I could hold my hand up and he would stop, without me needing to shout "DS NO!" across the room. And he would probably be about 11/12 mths at this point, so it just needs reinforcing loads.

hth

pootlepod · 04/04/2006 19:52

I felt like this but also compromised a bit and did some prevention tactics like having a stairgate on the door. I also use distraction.

DD is 2 years 2 months and only just starting to abide by no- not everytime but it has worked eventually.

Dottydot · 04/04/2006 19:54

Hi Fisil - you could be describing my 2 ds's!! Ds1 understood and obeyed the word 'no' from the very start - we used it from the moment he could crawl and he was an early crawler - can't remember how old now but probably around 6 months? Just saying 'no' would make him burst into tears and instantly stop what he was doing - he's 4 now and it still does!!

Ds2 came along and is a completely different kettle of fish. We did the same thing - introduced the concept of 'no' from when he could crawl and he was another early mover. He just laughed at us - and is 2 next week and continues to do so...

So I'm not sure it's a question of it being too early or your ds being too young - I think it's a personality thing. Ds2 is far more cheeky (in a wonderful but frustrating way!) and we're finding the best thing is to ignore where possible the 'naughty' things he's doing as he just loves the attention. He'll stop far quicker if we tell him to stop and then walk out/don't make eye contact.

Obviously you can't do this if he's heading for the sharp knives... Anything ds2 does that's dangerous/naughty, he goes on the naughty stair, which he hates (no attention!) so that does tend to work.

He's much more 'fun' than ds1 and enjoys life in a wonderful way, but much more hard work..!!

Original poster

fisil · 04/04/2006 19:56

mcmudda - that's very interesting. I usually accompany "no" with a pointed finger. That explains why he was doing that this morning. So in fact he wasn't being a cheeky monkey and playing a game, he was agreeing with me! I prefer the idea of the policeman's hand though, it has a clearer meaning (pointing means other things too). Do you think it's too late for me to change, or should I just exploit the finger pointing that he clearly understands?

OP posts:

Angeliz · 04/04/2006 19:56

I keep remembering too, don't know if i read it or watched something abou ti but, it's about saying wht you want them to do rather than not do.

DD always throws things from her highchair and i keep saying 'don't throw it'. The other day i realised that i was egging her on to do it so instead i said ' keep them on your table' It didn't work but makes sense

Original poster

fisil · 04/04/2006 19:58

Angeliz - yup - use that one in teaching all the time! And it does work.

Dottydot - your post has made me weep with happiness. I love the fact that ds1 and ds2 have such different personalities. I also secretly love the fact that ds2 is much more like me in personality and ds1 is like dp. That also probably explains why dp, who is usually so relaxed, is getting fed up with this thing!

OP posts:

threebob · 04/04/2006 20:01

We said "not for Bob". I think it's hard to be told not to open a cupboard that mum and dad use all the time. The finger wagging indicates to me that he is just trying to imitate you. So "not for xxx" teaches him that it's just him who isn't allowed.

Baby signing also has a sharp clap, and we found this worked well in conjuntion with the words because Bob may not have been looking at us and was absorbed in what he wanted to do.

serenity · 04/04/2006 20:02

I've always pointed/held one finger up too. It comes in handy when they are older when you can catch their eyes over a distance and just signal a 'no' without having to yell (obviously if I can't catch their eyes I can still do a brilliant howling banshee impression.....)

mcmudda · 04/04/2006 20:08

Definitely not too late to change . He's definitely copying you and maybe even agreeing with you in his own little way, but I guess it could come across as looking cheeky even if that's not how he means it (he's definitely too young to be naughty-cheeky - just cute-cheeky!) He might even start to use it back in other circumstances like when he doesn't want to do something. If he sees you understand him then it goes a long way to easing any toddler frustration.

We had a silly little song we learned from signing classes which he still loves at 3.5. At the start of each line you do the "no" sign (policeman's hand with a short sweep from left to right as you say the word no or don't):

Can't describe the tune, but you could invent one!

Don't wipe your nose on the sofa
Don't shut your fingers in the door
You shouldn't, you musn't, you can't touch that
And don't eat the biscuit off the floor!

Dottydot · 04/04/2006 20:11

Fisil! Oh yes - i also love the fact that ds2 - who is biologically mine - is so outrageous and just like me (although I also worry constantly that he's going to do other things like me like drop out of college etc.etc..!). Ds1 is just like dp and consequently ds2 drives her BONKERS in a way ds1 never has. I find it all very funny most of the time but am learning to make sure I don't give ds2 mixed messages - he seems to know/sense I don't think most of his crimes are that naughty..! But for the major offences like hitting his brother and throwing things (driving us mad at the moment) it's either on the naughty stair or just remove him from the situation but without talking.

All makes for an interesting life?!!

MrsMaple · 04/04/2006 20:13

I shouldn't really be here as not a particularly strict parent, but have decided to stroll in and offer a word of warning. If everytime you say No re cupboards - he'll love this, he'll think its a riot, he'll do it more and more until you're blue in the face with saying No. Like standing in front of the telly - desired response every single time, and he's got all day to annoy everyone and get attention and you haven't got all day to be annoyed and give attention.
Distraction. Tie the door for a day - when he can't get in, he'll go and find something else and hopefully forget it. Ignore. Distract. Divert.

Mamo · 04/04/2006 21:23

I've got some great ideas from here! I've always just said "ah ah not a toy, this is a toy" with a strong sign and given them something else to play with!

I have a son with Down's Sydrome and use signing (singalong based on british sign language) with him. Have used that with his younger brother and sister and have found his sister aged 2 1/2 loves it and asks what's the sigh for... and my 9 mthr is already beginning to use basic signs.

According to the speech thearpists and a few sites this can be used very effectively on very young children as long as the sign is used in conjunction with the word.

florenceuk · 04/04/2006 22:17

mmm - my DS was like this, and is still like this - so we put cupboard locks in, wedged books in (he liked to pull them out), moved lots of things up high and watched him like a hawk. Just saying "No" never seemed to work particularly well (and still doesn't!). You may think no has finally worked but actually they've just grown up a bit more and moved onto something else equally as annoying.

DD however is a different kettle of fish, much more compliant! but she still likes to pull the onions from the cupboard and bounce them on the floor.

lazycow · 05/04/2006 11:54

Just lock the doors. You will have enough things to say no to him about even with doing all that.

I say no to ds loads and we have quite a lot of babyproofing. It just makes life that bit easier.

Also it is true that when he can't get the door open after a few tries over a few days/weeks he gives up and now we could probably take the locks of some of the doors etc as he never does near them any more.

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