To ask what your three year old can do

[dappply]

My three year old DS was late walking ( 22 months) and when he did he never steadied up ( still falls regularly now). So we have been seeing a paediatrician and physio about that. His walking is very slowly improving, but I don't particularly have any concerns about his development otherwise

Today though he saw a different paediatrician, who was distressingly negative. She said he was slow in his speaking, needed a speech therapist. Slow in fine motor development, was unlikely to be able to write, would need a scribe and OT therapist.

I'm shocked, and don't know whether to be worried or angry. I think he's ok, a little slower than others perhaps but now I'm scared. He's already had a year of tests under neurologist and physio care, and seemingly there's nothing wrong with him.

So what can your three year old do? Does my boy sound terribly abnormal?

Movement- He can walk and run, climb, kick a ball, dance, but not jump yet, and is still wobbly on steps, falls over a lot. He can walk with his balance bike, but not run yet. He can't use a scooter. He can kick and reach out in the swimming pool, but can't float on his own.

Eating- he eats everything you give him pretty much, with a preference for using his hands. Can use cutlery messily, but needs encouragement. Makes a mess.

Drawing- can hold a pen and scribble, but no interest beyond that.

Speaking- new words everyday. Uses sentences, refers to the past, the future. Uses tenses. Not 100 percent clear, maybe half of what he says makes sense. But manages conversations with old ladies on bus and other children. Chatters away constantly. Males up lots of own words

Education- understands counting, can count uptown twenty but not necessarily in the right order. Understands colours and letters, but gets them wrong mainly. Remembers all his favourite story books and reads them to himself. Remembers words to songs.

Social- will talk to anyone, join in any game, likeable and happy. Can share easily although going through a stage of telling children to go away and pushing.

Sleep- sleeps 12 hours a night and 1-3 hour nap every day

Does he sound normal?

Seems like forever since mine were three, they are nearly 7 and nearly 6 now.

My DS was slow starting to walk, at around 15 months.

Very quick learning to talk, but not wanting to much until recently!

Very very slow with potty training!!!

They do all develop at different ages, but follow through with all the referals. Most likely they will assess him, say it is just his age and he will get there and discharge him.

I have heard of GPs being called jack of all trades, master of none, so let him see the specialists! Hopefully you will get reassured, but if not your son will get help.

I think he sounds normal, but would make 2 points :-

1. Dont get me wrong, I've see some fab doctors / nurses in my time, but have also come across some health professionals who have little or no empathy with parents and don't appreciate the ramifications of what they are saying - they just give you what is set out to be a "diagnosis" rather than setting it out as an opinion. My DS (now 7) has been wearing glasses since he was 3 and has had regular check ups for years now. However, he was tested at school when he was in reception (so aged 4) and I had a call from the optometrist to discuss "career options" for him as I "needed to know that his eye sight was so bad that he'd never be able to drive". A check up the next week at the eye hospital with the consultant confirmed that wasn't the case.

1. Having said that, we did have concerns about his speech (he was slow to speak and then developped a mild stutter). I did think this was useful and whilst we only had a few appointments, it was worthwhile seeing them.

My DS2 has been referred for SALT too, it's just because they have a range of what is considered normal, and kids falling outside of that or looking like they might have been shown to progress far better with early intervention.

IMO DS2 does not actually need SALT, as he develops in fits and starts (no words at all at 2, but an advanced vocabulary now - but his sounds are jumbled a little.)

He can dress etc, but he is also the youngest of 3 which I think helps.

FWIW, at 3, DS1 (who has mild ASD) could not dress or toilet himself at all. He could not be understood by anyone who didn't know him well, and even with familiar peoplle he was about 50% intelligible. When he fell (frequently) he wouldn't put his hands out, so mashed his face (losing his front teeth as a consequence) every time. And he couldn't use a pen or pencil at all. Now at 7, he's among highest achievers in his class, and got an award in his drama group for working so hard to make his speech clear. Kids can surprise you, at 3 I was told he would need a classroom assistant and would never be independent!

Sorry Paeds, not GP, still same applies, they see all children with all illnesses.

He does sound to me like he is doing ok though.

I am very jealous of the sleep thing too, could almost hate you for it!!

no advice as ds is only 16mth but just to add to the suggestions for writing practise - aquadoodle is fab and mess free

Crunchy frog, that's prettying what she said today, that he'd need a classroom assistant etc. she even said " what about exams? I doubt he'll be able to sit exams"

Thanks all, your making me feel better. I'll think about the referrals, do you think I'm wrong to worry about physchological effects then? Any advice on how to talk to him about all this? Breaks my heart, watching him listen to all that is said with big eyes.

Not sure how much he understands

Sounds exactly like DD, who is 2.6, except she knows her colours and letters, but sounds behind your DS with speaking and is not even nearly potty trained.

I am sort of expecting her to be about where he is at his age, or maybe a little further with some things.

I think it sounds like your DS is developing at his own rate. None of these things are things he will never be able to do, he might just do them slower.

DD was also a late walker and was/is very very cautious, perferring for example to sit down and go down kerbs on her bottom, even if she was holding my hand. She's slowly catching up to the other kids her age, but it's taking a while. She'll get there, as will your DS.

He's completely in cautious, flings himself everywhere, never looks where he's going. Covered in cuts and bruises.

Yes the sleeping makes up for the constant " bang-crash- scream-wail" .

He is lovely and I just want to trust on who he is. This paed has just shook me up

I doubt he'll be able to sit exams - ! Seriously, what the jeff were they thinking of?

Children of this age develop so differently. My DD was a late walker to, not quite as late as your DS but she was 18mths, she's coming up to 3.5 now and only just starting to be what I'd describe as a confident walker, running, jumping being able to use the scooter (but not steer it), potty training have all been recent developments. Her fine motor, speech and colour/number/letter recognition have all come on really well in the last 6 months. I'd say she was good at drawing for her age.

Long term, this is all going to mean sweet bugger all.

Ds who will be 4 in August walked around 17 months which we though was latel as he was crawling by 6 months and pulling himself up at 8 months. When he did walk he kept falling over especially when he tried to run. Turns out after a trip to the podiatrist when he was 3.5 he had hypermobility and with inserts in his shoes he was running and never falling over. It was amazing his knobbly knees disappeared in about 6 weeks. The reason I mention it is that a friend has a ds with more severe hypermobility that affects the joints in his hands so he has much more trouble with fine motor skills and writing.

I went to a speech therapist when I was little (aged 3/4 I think) because I was pretty awful at talking because my ears were blocked up and I couldn't hear well (so used lots of nonsense words, thinking I was saying it right, like "baybole" instead of "polo" and "nitbit" instead of "biscuit")

Absolutely no psychological effects at all. In fact, I can barely remember it. Can't remember anyone making a big deal of it, even other children (don't know if they knew but most children need some kind of help at different times in their lives and children are pretty accepting about things like that I think).

Op, your ds sounds just like ds1 when he was just 3yo wrt talking and drawing. He's only just, at 3.10, starting to take an interest in doing anything other than scribbling on a page! Nursery aren't worried and neither am I. They all develop at their own pace.

Does Dr 'Positive' have a bloody crystal ball or something? How the hell can she make comment on something 13years down the line when a child develops so much between now and then? For all she knows, he may be on the cusp of a massive development leap (as ds1 did at about 3.4, he suddenly shot up and one day he seemed to be a toddler and the next day a little boy)

Fwiw, my friends ds, also 3, is always falling over, he has his own accident book at nursery! It's just one of those things.

Try not to worry, it sounds as though you are doing a fantastic job and your ds is lucky to have such a tuned in mum :)

I think you are absolutely wrong to worry about the psychological affects, yes. SALT and OT sessions are fun, for a start. It's just extra attention and kids like that. They are also much better at talking in front of children than this pead is.

And they might just assess and discharge him if this pead is as daft as s/he seems to be. Take the help but don't overthink any of it. And they'll be doing their exams on ipads, you mark my words...

Thank you x

agree, he won't have any idea that every child doesn't go to speech therapy etc etc. they make it fun and do lots of games and things and i've never heard anyone say anything negative in 2 years of speech therapy and audiology appointments!

as I said before, I think your paediatrician was lacking in tact!

if you're worried about him hearing lots of negative things during paed appointments then is it possible to take someone with you who can take him out?
with DS1 we let him play out in the waiting room while we speak with the paediatrician, and she just sees him to do the checks she wants to do. We've made it very clear that we don't want him present while we're talking about the things that are "wrong" with him or that he struggles with and our worries over him.

dappply. As for how to talk to him about it. I have a little experience in this. My son has an eye condition which means he has annoyingly regular eye tests. From quite little I told him we were going to see the lady that wants to play. A lot of the tests are done in a playful way, which helps and I'm sure most healthcare professionals who work with children would do the same.

He sounds like a pretty normal 3 year-old (in my limited experience) who perhaps needs some help with very specific areas of development. It sounds a bit like the paed was jumping to some very general conclusions based on a fairly narrow set of facts.

DS1 is nearly 3. I have been told by his nursery that he is "extremely bright" and they recently did him a report for his new pre-school which says that he is physically advanced for his age. This is consistent with the teacher at a gym class he attends who has suggested moving him up to the next age group early as he has mastered the skills needed. This isn't a boast - it is just to set the context. They might all be talking utter arse for all I know!

Movement - He walked quite early - 10 months - but still falls over quite a lot. He can't dance - he just jumps up and down. He can run with his balance bike but can't use his scooter properly - he just stands on it and lets it gradually veer off sideways and stop. He can kick when swimming, but doesn't always remember to do so, and can't float on his own.

Eating - he eats most things. He can use cutlery but often gives up and uses his hands. He makes a massive mess.

Drawing - holds a pen in his fist and scribbles. Can't hold pen properly or make even an attempt at drawing anything but scribbly lines. Rips the paper with the pen a lot.

Speaking - he is more articulate than most children of his age group that I have heard speaking. Uses tenses but can't get his head around concrete past/future times - everything in the past is "last morning" and everything in the future is "Sunday" or "Monday". Very clear but sometimes talks nonsense. Makes up his own words to be silly. Repeats himself over and over.

Education - can count to 10 and sometimes beyond, but sometimes seems to forget how. Can sometimes count actual things but often double-counts something or misses something out. Very occasionally can do basic adding - eg three cows, another one comes along so four cows. Not consistent with any of this. Knows colours and some letters but very inconsistent with recognising letters. Recognises shapes of words in favourite books and remembers chunks of the story. Remembers words to songs and sometimes makes up own versions - real words or nonsense words.

Sociable - will join in/talk to anyone. Quite bossy sometimes.

Sleep - 12 hours a night and 1-2 hour nap a day. Gets very tired during the day.

In terms of language, one of my friends wondered about SALT for her same-aged DS as he is quite unclear. There is no suggestion of any developmental issues - he just doesn't speak particularly precisely.

He doesn't sound particularly delayed in any area - I would be looking for another opinion.

You really can't make accurate forecasts that far ahead. (Incidentally, your little boy sounds positively G&T, compared to the slow talkers that seem to run in my family! My little boys of the same age have just had a speaking spurt, and they're still not at that level yet.)

But. Assuming, just for the moment, that he might have trouble writing when he's 16, I still doubt it will necessarily be THAT big a problem. Right now, in 2012, it is possible to type on a pc for some exams, if you have difficulties writing. It is also possible to be granted extra time (25%), in some situations.

I've heard that permission to dictate answers is sometimes granted, too.

Think what's going to be possible in over a decade's time!

He sounds lovely and 'normal' - whatever that may be!
My DD is brilliant at talking, listening, comprehension and empathy. Not so good at gross motor skills (always got bruised legs/arms!), has known counting/numbers/letters since she was about 18 months but not really progressed much since then. She is terrible at drawing (just scribbles) has no interest in writing and gets annoyed when I try to get her to hold the pen properly. Obviously she'll never learn to write and I'll need to scribe for her and she'll never be an athlete or a dancer (because we can predict exacty what they'll be like in the future based on their pre-school skills! )
What a horribly insensitive woman!

At just 3 he sounds fine to me to. Both of my dc have 'problems' with their fine motor skills though. My ds is 5 now and gets seen by an ot at school who does 1:1 work with him to help him do things like zips, buttons, holding a pencil correctly etc, all things which he finds differcult and hence has no interest in. The ot has helped loads though and he can now do up zips. Both my dc are hypermoblie in their hands which basically means there extra bendy. Everyone's is different if certainly hasn't held him back and whilst his writing and colouring isn't as neat as others his knowledge of maths / science stuff is very good. I wouldn't worry but don't be afraid to see ots etc as well, some can be very helpful.

Yours sounds just like my just 3 yr old, but more advanced in many ways.

He falls over all the time, looks behind him when he's running.

Can't get undressed without help and is not potty trained yet.

Swimming? No way. Not yet.

I'd be inclined to question this p and to ask her why she is so concerned exactly. And get a second opinion for sure!

I think any help you can get, whether essential or not is great. So I'd be up for whatever was recommended. (haven't explained this v well, hope you know what i mean?!)

My cousin was like this - didn't walk or sit up till almost two, had speech problems and struggled with fine motor skills. He is now many years later top of his class academically, has resolved the speech issues and is as coordinated as the next child.

The speech therapists were amazing by the way!

DD was 3 in January. She's quite bright for her age, in terms of her language, but not noticeably ahead in other areas (like physical ability).

So here's what she's doing at present:

Movement- Walk and run, climb, kick a ball, dance (in a very uncordinated fashion, tends more to be jumping than dancing), jump and hop, climb stairs up and down fairly easily if slowly. She has just figured out how to use her 3-wheeled scooter, and her tricycle. She is happy in water, will kick and float alone as long as she has swimming aids (floats, noodles) but won't (can't?) swim unaided (her swimming teacher encourages them to kick underwater by themselves - dd doesn't.

Eating- he eats everything you give him pretty much, with a preference for using his hands. Can use cutlery messily, but needs encouragement. Makes a mess.
Sounds identical to dd. She can use a fork and spoon but has no clue what her knife is for. She often prefers to eat with her hands especially if it's something she really loves - far quicker getting it into her mouth!

Drawing- likes colouring but has no concept of staying inside the lines, and often uses just one or two colours rather than a range. Can write some of the letters from her name. 'Writes' random shapes and then tells us that 'this one is 2' - not from where we are sitting it isn't!

Speaking- new words everyday. Uses sentences, refers to the past, the future. Uses tenses. Not 100 percent clear, maybe half of what he says makes sense. But manages conversations with old ladies on bus and other children. Chatters away constantly. Males up lots of own words
Sounds very similar.to dd

Education- understands counting, can count upto twenty, mostly in the right order. Understands colours. Can recognise a few letters )around 5) that appear in her own name, knows that the words in her book mean something but hasn't got any furter than that. Remembers all her favourite story books and reads them to herself. Remembers words to songs.

Social- will talk to anyone, join in any game, likeable and happy. Can share easily although going through a stage of telling children to go away and pushing.
DD is not great here - she is quite happy in her own company and although she will join in if the other kids are doing something she likes, if they aren't, she does her own thing. And gets frustrated if they come to join her game and don't do what she wants.

Sleep- sleeps from about 8.00 until around 7.00, with no naps.

Toilet trained - just! She can get herself to the loo but not always pull clothing up afterwards. She can put her trousers on but cannot do t-shirts or jackets by herself.

I'd say unless your son is taking exams in the next year or so, this is so far ahead they are not worth worrying about! If he needs help, he will get it as school identify the need. It's worth being aware of, I guess, but really not worth stressing over (FWIW, one of the cleverest people I know has to have a scribe for exams -it hasn't affected his career at all!)
He sounds perfectly normal, and a lovely child to boot!