Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Original poster

Shocked about what ds's friend aged 6 can't do ...

188 replies

Easy · 24/02/2006 17:51

Today We took ds's friend (well his girlfriend, according to him) for an outing, our first time with this friend. Now I know my ds is advanced for 6 (everyone tells me so), but I was shocked to find that she
a) is unable to fasten a car seatbelt herself (her mum put her in my car as we went, she couldn't fasten it herself for the return journey)
b) Doesn't know when her birthday is, beyond being able to say "It's a long time to my birthday"
c ) can't identify the months of the year, and doesn't know it is February now.

Also can't understand why I corrected the phrase " I don't want no chips", altho' I recognise this may be acceptable language at her house.

My son has fastened his own seatbelt since just after his 5th birthday, has a complete grasp of the calendar, and has been able to tell people his birthday date since 3 y.o.

He can now tell the time (altho' won't admit it, he's too sly).

Are my expectations too high and the girlfriend is average for 6, or is his friend "a bit behind"

I'm genuinely curious about this one

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

expatinscotland · 26/02/2006 14:02

'I am so sick of people banging on about how bright their kids are. I think its quite laughable actually and shouldn't get annoyed. '

I couldn't agree more, bosscat. Don't you find that sooo gauche? I do. I was always taught that when you're really the business, you don't need to boast about it. At all.

fennel · 26/02/2006 14:03

my nearly 6 year old can't do those things consistently. for that matter i (37) can't always do the seatbelts up in our car. And DP (38) can not remember any birthdays or dates except his own birthday. Last year he took the girls to buy me birthday presents a whole month early, by mistake.

It doesn't mean DP and i are thick, at least i hope not

bosscat ours is a renault espace - they're hard, aren't they? especially with 3 child seats wedged in a row.

Piffle · 26/02/2006 14:07

Cedrtainly the problem comes when you compare
I found the opening post on this thread a pretty torrid judgement call
One thing to think it and mention it to your dh one thing to start it up on here
I do ask for help about ds sometimes with ref to education (G+T) and also for dd and her special needs but would never start a thread like this.
Comparing is fraught with perilous difficulty by its very nature.

TinyGang · 26/02/2006 14:10

I'm with bosscat and expat. Actually, I clicked on this wondering what the shocking things were going to be that the 6yr old didn't seem to know. Blimey, I'm not always sure what day of the week it is myself, let alone the month!

My dd probably comes across as quite reserved with people she doesn't know well and may or may not know the answers either. As for seatbelts - they can be tricky critters even for grownups.

TinyGang · 26/02/2006 14:17

Actually, I love the way children don't seem to understand times and months etc.

As an adult I spend all my life stressing about what time it is and how long have we got to this that or the other. My 4 year old's nearest estimate is 'next-morrow' as ahe says(that can mean anything from yesterday to next Christmas). Good for them. They have a life of worrying about all that ahead of them.

Greensleeves · 26/02/2006 14:19

That's the most sensible thing I've heard all day

expatinscotland · 26/02/2006 14:21

I like how they distinguish time by going from holiday to holiday. Now that's the way to live!

Original poster

Easy · 26/02/2006 14:25

Right Rhubarb, Bosscat expat and so on.

I've said every time I posted I wasn't being judgemental.

But if my attitude is so offensive, I'll go.

I've been a regular on MN for about 3 years, I've had a lot of good advice, some good laughs. and I'd like to think I've helped a few people now and then along the way.

But judging what my son's friend can do apparently makes me unfair, bordering on evil.

actually, I really am upset by todays postings.
Bye mumsnet, don't expect to see me again.

OP posts:

Greensleeves · 26/02/2006 14:27

My 3yo gauges time by using all the family birthdays as a set of navigation points - he doesn't know months or dates or anything like that (nor have I made any effort to make him learn it!) but he knows the order in which people's birthday's happen (because he gets excited about them so he's remembered them). For example he knew we had a visit to his Granny in Reading planned, and he told me it was going to be after Daddy's birthday, but before Mummy's. The trouble with teaching them all our systems of thinking too early is that they - and we - miss out on the unique way in which they naturally see the world. IMHO.

welshboris · 26/02/2006 14:27

easy- if youve been on here for 3 years then how can you be offended enough to flounce just off the back of this thread?

you need to toughen up a lot

Rhubarb · 26/02/2006 14:39

If you cannot see how you can offend by comparing your ds's intelligence to someone else's dd then I'm very sorry. But you have to realise that it is actually quite offensive to say things like "Now I know my ds is advanced for 6 (everyone tells me so)" and "Are my expectations too high and the girlfriend is average for 6, or is his friend "a bit behind" ". These are children you are talking about, to describe your ds's friend as a "bit behind" is offensive to that little girl, her parents, and some of us whose children are at the same level.

If you think that you are being 'got at' then I am very sorry. I do not intend to insult you by pointing out how offended I am by your posts, I just want you to understand that, to me, comparing the abilities of children in this way is unacceptable. It is not evil, we all probably compare, but in our heads. There have been a lot of threads on MN recently about how clever such and such's child is, what so and so's child can do at 5 and so on. All that does is to make that person feel better, and the rest of us feel a bit crap that our child who might be older, cannot do those things.

I feel that expectations are too high for our children today, that too much pressure it put upon them and we are being encouraged too much to compare our children with others. This is not fair either on the parents or the children.

I am sorry you feel you want to leave Mumsnet because of this. That is your decision. But other than apologising for offending you, I cannot apologise for what I said as I truly believe in it and it really does make me very angry. But that is what Mumsnet is about, having opinions and expressing them, and taking criticism from time to time. I've been here for 5 years and have been called everything from a racist to a facist and so on, none of those would make me leave however, I just figure that I will not have the same opinions on here as everyone else, there are people here who make me mad, others make me laugh. I dish out criticism and I take it. So dust yourself off, and carry on posting. It's only talk.

bosscat · 26/02/2006 15:12

I echo everything Rhubarb just said. Easy, you shouldn't go because you think you are being got at. You aren't. But you said some pretty judgemental things and just because you say "I'm not being judgemental but my son is clever and I think his friend isn't" doesn't mean it isn't actually very judgemental! We all judge of course but I actually try very hard not to and am sticking to doing it in my head lest I offend. I really meant what I said, everyone thinks their child is clever, special, wonderful and of course they all. Don't go and don't be upset. We are only disagreeing with you but you have the right to your own opinions.

bosscat · 26/02/2006 15:14

and fennel yes, renault espace are very unchild friendly with that seat arrangement. I've put my back out countless times swinging ds2 into his baby seat. We should write to them!

donnie · 26/02/2006 15:16

I do think correcting another child's speech on your first ever outing together is OTT. I am a stickler for grammar and pronunciation pedantry but I wouldn't do that!

ks · 26/02/2006 15:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

tamum · 26/02/2006 15:46

bosscat beat me to it- it's a shame if you feel you have to leave, but saying that you aren't being judgemental isn't really enough when the posts clearly are. I would never correct a visiting child's grammar either, poor little kid.

tigermoth · 26/02/2006 15:57

well, I have winced at some of the comparing chidren threads, too, but not this one.

In her very first message, Easy asks if her expectations are too high. She is just stating what she witnessed, not making any firm judgements.

She got answers back to say, well, yes, your expectations are too high, lots of 6 year olds can't do the things you list. Can't see any problem there and Easy seemed fine with the general verdict.

If it's not 'nice' to talk on the internet about other chidren's foibles or possible failings I better never post again and mumsnete better delete half its threads.

Rhubarb · 26/02/2006 16:06

Sorry tigermoth but the first post quoted: "Also can't understand why I corrected the phrase " I don't want no chips", altho' I recognise this may be acceptable language at her house.

My son has fastened his own seatbelt since just after his 5th birthday, has a complete grasp of the calendar, and has been able to tell people his birthday date since 3 y.o.

He can now tell the time (altho' won't admit it, he's too sly).

Are my expectations too high and the girlfriend is average for 6, or is his friend "a bit behind"

I realise that I don't know Easy in RL, and she may not be aware of how her posts come out, but to me this sounds very boastful of her son's achievements and very judgemental of the other little girl and her background. This may not be Easy's intention, but that is the way it came out.

tigermoth · 26/02/2006 16:12

Just goes to show how we can interpret things differently on the internet - to me the question 'Are my expectations too high and the girlfriend is average for 6, or is his friend "a bit behind' is a question, not a value judgement. OK, the phrase' a bit behind' is not mega tactful and I am sure Easy would not be saying this in real life. I just think she was thinking out loud.

expatinscotland · 26/02/2006 16:17

i'd have been more concerned about the 'girlfriend' part. nnnnnoooooo, not my little baby! she's not allowed to have romantic interests until she's at least 30!

Nightynight · 26/02/2006 16:21

Hope you can reconsider, Easy. I thought your OP was slightly judgemental, but that is hardly the worst crime in the world! and the thread was interesting.
The title is a must-click, by the way, for anyone with a 6 year old!

Rhubarb · 26/02/2006 16:26

I do understand that Easy may not have meant to sound so judgemental. The written word lacks the intuition you get from the spoken word. However I do find it crass to compare children in this way, to say openly that your child is clever, perhaps because you are an older parent, or whatever. Personally I wouldn't say anything like that because I feel that it makes others feel put down. It's like a thread someone did recently about her 6 year old not being able to read very well, and she got posts saying things like "well my child is a very advanced reader at 6, he can read books by himself" and so on, those kinds of comments are not helpful and make people feel bad.

But I accept that this may not have been Easy's intentions. I did say that in my opinion, I found the post to have been offensive, towards the little girl and her parents. But that is my opinion and I readily admit that not knowing Easy personally, I cannot really make a judgement about her intentions.

I just wish people would stop bigging up their kids at the expense of others and stop comparing children of the same age, expecting them to be at the same levels. They are children, they are meant to be different, some take longer to catch up, it doesn't make them behind or slow. I just really feel for the children involved in all of this. After all, to them all of their friends are equal, I wish we adults would take a leaf out of their book sometimes.

CarolinaMoon · 26/02/2006 16:26

I'm not sure why Easy's got such a bashing on this thread, unless it's for the heinous crime of counting your child's achievements .

TinyGang · 26/02/2006 17:01

I'm not sure Easy's been bashed - I've seen worse on here, but yes, some of this has sounded a bit 'comparative' and it doesn't sit well with some of us so we said so.

Whenever you post on here you have to be prepared for the opposing view to surface even if it wasn't your intention counsel that view. Admittedly this is a medium where intonation and irony can be lost in the ether though and that's a hole many of us can fall through.

I hope Easy doesn't leave, but Rhubarb has put her view across extremely well in measured and non-inflammatory tones. I do agree with what she is getting at actually.

singersgirl · 26/02/2006 18:45

Well, I didn't think Easy's original post was that bad. Though we all know that comparing is invidious, I don't believe people who say they don't compare. They may not dwell on their comparisons and may not draw inferences or value judgements from them, but it is impossible not to compare. It's human nature.

Why else would people describe their children as 'tall' or 'short'? Because they are comparing them to other children their age.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8