Advice (not a thrashing please) about what to do in this situation, feel awful.

[nosleepwithworry]

I have a niece who is now 9. She is a handful, swears, uses racially innapropriate language, will not do as she is told, doesnt go to sleep till after 11pm every night, is cheeky and argumentative (probably a great deal of normal 9 year old behaviour) But i find it very difficult to deal with for any longer than a short amount of time.

School has my sister in regulalry over the problems and have tried all sorts of things from stickers to one to one, to seperating her from kids who are influential etc etc.

My niece lives at my mums house up to 6 nights a week due to my sisters work hours. My mum is as she was when we were kids, agressive, swears, argumentative.....you can see where my niece gets this all from cant you.

My mum has little control over my niece tbh, niece listens to just about nothing my mum says.

Anyway, we have been invited to a family do in the summer, we aim to go with our caravan (me, dh & ds aged 8). We are making a weekend of it and going earlier and staying a bit longer.

My sister has just txt me saying she is unable to get the day off work, to ensure that niece doesnt miss out ont he do, can i take her with us?

I REALLY dont want to, i know niece will dominate the whole thing and will ruin it for us all. Its for an entire weekend too, not a few hours which is challenging enough.
Im not in favour of shouting at some one elses child, i am not comfortable with my ds being exposed to her bad language and to witness her bad behaviour.

Thing is, every one is very very negative about my niece except me...im always saying to my sister that niece is just pushing boundries....you know stuff to make my sister feel better about it, so she doesnt think i have any problem with niece...id but have never ever said anything to her.

What can i diplomatically do here??
seriously stressed and feel so very bad.

"No, that won't work for us"

don't feel you need to add anything else but if you really want to say that you want to spend some time with just dh and ds.

I don't think getting into long, drawn out conversations is going to help.

You are doing nothing wrong by saying no.

This is a tough one if you are the one who tries to make your sister feel better about her DD.

I agree with you though and I wouldn't want this child with me for the weekend, particaularly wouldn't want my own children around a child that spoke the way your niece does.

Can you say that you really need some family time and your DH is insisting that it just be the 4 of you? Can your mum not take her?

Other than that I have no advice as I am not a diplomatic person and I would probably gently explain to your sister that I didn't have the energy to cope with her child all weekend as she is a handful.

ahhhhhggggg
my sister will probably fall out with me about it though as no excuse will be good enough!
Not particulalry bothered about that but my mum will fall out with me too as she is very very defensive and close to my niece. My mum isnt well enough to go to this do, so wont be going.

Could you say that you are unhappy about your child being under your niece's influence? That is the real reason isn't it? Could you phrase it really nicely and say your son is easily led and at a difficult stage in his development etc. Build it up a bit and make it kind of not your niece's fault if you can.
I would not tackle this one if I were in your place.

Come on Rezolution...i saw your name and thought...now, theres a girl who will know the answer to my worries with a fab name like that!

DH will just say no, absolutely not as he is intolerant of my niece.
I cant say that to my sister though can i!

I wanted to perhaps suggest to my sister that she may need to start to seek proper help for her behaviour as it is affecting her interaction and opportunities to have a fantastic time, no one wants to have anything lingering to do with my niece because of it.

This is desperately sad.
Maybe GP or CHAMs at school. i dont know.

So, you think your niece has learnt inappropriate behaviour from her grandmother. Your sister continues to leave her with the grandmother 6 days a week, but has randomly asked you to have her for a family thing.

Why hasn't she asked the grandmother? Is it possible that she's hoping to get her away from the influence, and thinks you might be able to to help her get her dd back under control?

Fwiw, it's not normal behaviour for a 9yo. By using the 'pushing boundaries' line you are reassuring your diss that her dd's behaviour is ok. So she will probably be a bit surprised that the one person that seems to think dd's behaviour is ok, won't have her for a couple of days because of her behaviour, tbh...

Do just say no. But please do back it up with a genuine reason why not. This poor 9yo is going to get no help at all to modify her behaviour if folk keep making excuses for her. You will be doing sis a favour if you sit down and have an honest discussion with her about dd.

When is the last time dsis went into school? Is the dd on a behaviour plan? Des dsis have any external supports for dd's issues? What does the senco suggest?

You can say no and still offer to be a sounding board. And tell her that you will help her get some support in place for dd's behaviour, but you are unable to cope in a small space (caravan) for that length of time, whilst there is no plan in plan to help the dd learn socially appropriate rules.

If you are anything like my sis and I, you will have had previous discussions about (your parents) parenting. If this is common ground and you believe the root of the issue, it needs to be raised. Is this a sticking point between dsis and your mum? Free childcare in return for a child with no boundaries? Or is it that dd is difficult and the grandparent can't cope?

Sorry, massive x -post, but you seem to be thinking along the same lines, anyway.

No because I cannot be responsible for her in a caravan because of the phase she is going through with her behaviour.

Simple and if they dont like it then tough.

thanks fort he reply madwoman, my mum isnt well enough to go to the family do, otherwise she would take my niece.

We have had numerous discussions about what an appauling parent my mother was, my sister claims to "utterly hate her". But yes, free childcare is the main thing here, plus my sister does not have to deal with nieces behaviour becuase she is constantly at my mums.
My sister has a very active social life, and niece stays at my mums when my sister goes out at weekends...there is rummbling argumanets about this allot...in front of niece, swearing, shouting etc.

I have also spoken with my sister about the outside agencies that can help with this issue, my sister is some what inert...niece is at school...they can deal with it, niece is at my mums...she can deal with it. Sister sees niece of a couple of hours a day at picking up time from school, and on a Sunday, unless hungover following a night out.

Poor little niece just needs normality..i know this, but im not in a strong enough position to offer this. I just cant deal with it...and anyway, i will be just another person.....to deal with it, and i refuse to be.

She needs to take responsibility.

But back to my problem, how to word this diplomatically???

oooh bretgirl i like that, that is to the point and concise, i like that allot... thanks x

she is 9 , how can she possibly dominate things?

If you are in the position to look after your niece explain to your sister 'if she comes it's under my rules'

But the girl is 9 years old don't write them of as lost cause.

If you feel strongly that your sister is a bad mum , you need to address this with her.

A nine year old girl is not dangerous or evil

You have to witness it to believe it BlueBirdsnest.
tbh i was expecting to get posts questioning how much power a 9 year old can have.

She WILL make the whole time we are away a complete misery for us all.

My sister isnt a bad mum, she has just been dominated by my mum so much over the last 9 years, over ruled and pushed out that she is just immune to anything any more where my niece is concerned. She has just been battered down by her.

God its like an abusive relationship isnt it! between my mum & sister it really is, just occurred to me.

btw..no mention of dangerous or evil to be fair, just challenging.

nosleep Sorry I didn't live up to my name. This going away thing has brought matters to a head but the problem is so much more deep-rooted than that. You cannot wipe out the last nine years of mis-handling in one weekend unfortunately. Poor kid, she is suffering because of the way she is and it isn't her fault at all.

How about inviting your niece to join you for a weekend in the caravan before the family event and use it as a trial run.

Lay down the law to her and your sister beforehand about how her behaviour needs to be acceptable in order not to spoil the weekend for everyone.

If she takes heed and behaves you can consider taking her knowing that she is able to modify her behaviour when she needs to.

If her behaviour is a problem you have a ready-made reason not to take her to the family do and nobody can accuse you of being judgemental.

It's really tough when your wider family have very different values and it shows in their parenting.
Your sister is not blind to her daughter's behaviour if she has sought reassurance from you with regards to it. I understand your loyalty and wanting to be the person who gives your niece a fair chance and maybe even give her the benefit of a positive influence, but unless her main carers are reinforcing this I doubt it will be enough.

I have repeatedly tried to be non-judgemental and supportive to a close family member and her children. I can see her situation is completely different to mine and she has completely different priorities in life to me, I get that, but the decisions and choices we make in life do affect our children's behaviour.
You are fighting an up-hill battle if your sister and mum can't see that this is more than just pushing boundaries.

Have that talk with your sister, if you have been supportive in the past she may realise that if someone who cares is reluctant to look after her daughter for a weekend then the problem requires more than a few sticker charts and school interventions. Your sister has to realise that her child is going to miss out on a whole lot more than a weekend away, if she can't sort her behaviour out.

Thank you all so much for your very very wise and kind words, you seem to have hit the nail on the head. I cant thank you enough.

It does feel ike an uphil slog...for no reason as nothing changes at the core.
I have taken her on days out, had her at the house, picked her up from school to help out, and she isnt as bad with me, but bad enough to make me think "never again" then i feel bad and feel really sorry for her as she doesnt get to go anywhere.

She really pushes ds to near explosion as she is so argumentative and relentless. I obviously intervene, but can see her pulling faces at me while explaining why its not nice to argue......while this is something i can easily cope with, this is teeny tiny example. And its constant.
She runs off when out and about, just legs it away! Even after having a talk about how we must all stay together, or even showing her where she can explore...its like ive said nothing at all. That is a serious safety issue!

I just cnaat trust how she will be.
sigh.
sigh
sigh

OK so tell your sister that you are very sorry but you don't feel you can take her because you can't take responsibility for keeping her safe.

Say that you don't feel that you can manage her behaviour well enough to know that she won't leg it or whatever else she has a habit of doing which will put her or your DS at risk.

The thing is that going away with anyone other than your own parents is a privilege not a right.

Privileges have to be earned and your niece needs to understand that. To teach her otherwise is unhelpful.

FWIW my mother always says that 9/10 was my worst age.

No harm will come to her if she stays at home will it? She just needs to be told that she cannot come with you because her past behaviour has shown that she is unmanageable. When/if her behaviour improves (fingers crossed!) you will have another think about it. Thing is, can she change her behaviour? Does she even want to? Maybe she is happier at home? The safe option is to not take her with you. The tough thing is explaining this to all concerned.

why dont you talk to the child? she is old enuf to understand rules and consequenses! if u are the only person to take her anywhere tell her if she behaves badly she wont go again but when she behaves well reward her! all children need positive reinforcement and some sort of stability or maybe she needs someone to talk too, there is obviously some issues there!