My four year old, can you advise please?

[Yorkiegirl]

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Sorry to hear about recent change in behaviour.
My dd is 6 now but when she was a preschool she would often come home abusive and basically horrible espcially to me. I think it was her way of release, she eventually grew out of it but I did mention it to her teachers. Keep a close eye on it as you don't know how other kids are treating her so this could be a factor. Hope she starts improving soon.

Ds often seems to save his horridness for home - his teacher loves him at school, and he is very well behaved, but he did have a phase, just after starting school of being SO naughty at home. Seems to have grown out of it now, so think it was just a phase.

I think it is a phase. When dd first started school she seemed to get a very high opinion of herself and decided that she was too old to play with ds, 2. She soon grew out of it, though it took a little while. I just dealt with it by talking to her and encouraging her to lay nicely. My dd is now 5 and they are now as close as ever.

YG, sorry to hear this. Even if they are loving pre-school/nursery etc, as starbuck says, they need a release from being "good" and following a collective routine all day long. It usually comes out at home where they feel safer in venting energy, and, sadly, aggression.
This is a hard one because at four they are old enough to understand why their behaviour is out of order, old enough to be miserable about it, but not old enough to work out their own coping strategies So although they are being quite hateful at times, it can help you cope with it to feel a bit sorry for them. But, of course, they MUSTN'T hit and they have to be told about not sharing and so on.
You could try a star chart - it worked quite well for ds on the whole.
And this is just a phase, as they say...

I would be concerned about this and I must admit I would consider very carefully whether I was happy with the preschool. Perhaps I am being idealistic as my ds has not reached this age yet, but I don't think a child should really be coming out tearful and not wanting to say why. It would concern me. The other behaviour sounds well within normal limits but if it is not normal for your daughter and has happened in conjunction with upsets at nursery then I would link the two.

I hesitated before posting this, as I feel it is not very reassuring, but this is my honest reaction. The obvious explanation is that someone is picking on her at preschool and treating her in the way she is treating your younger daughter, but of course that is just a guess and it could be something completely different.

You are being idealistic Franny
Of course it is important to double-check all is as it should be at preschool, but believe me, the meekest of children can be in the best of settings and still need to wig out at home, in an uncharacteristic and even upsetting way. It is tremendously common and honestly not necessarily related to a dodgy nursery setting.
However, you have to accept that entering preschool is going to bring your child into a more diverse setting than previous, and that could mean sharing classroom space with other small kids who are not good at sharing or who have not had the best of starts. I think what I am trying to say is that even if there is upsetting behaviour that YG's dd1 is experiencing, even an excellent nursery/preschool cannot magic it away. They can and should deal with it appropriately of course.

YG, they are supposed to save their worst behaviour for home - apparently! When ds was possessed by demons when ex-H left, I was referred to a child pysch & she said that in a way behaving badly at home shows they feel safe there. With all effort of being good & concentrating on different things at pre-school probably means your dd is using home as a release valve. Both of mine have been tearful sometimes as I've collected them, and I put it down to tiredness & relief at seeing me!!! (Maybe it was horror at seeing me & I'm just delusional .)
I think you probably need to set some fairly strict boundaries regarding hitting her sister, with one warning & then a sanction that you have agreed beforehand.
I agree with most of the others, it probably is a phase - lots going on in her little life at the moment.

The tearfulness is prob as much down to tiredness than anything. It is very demanding for them to start with, and takes a bit of gettign used to.

It is so very very usual to be lovely at school and tearful/stroppy/awful at home. So usual, in fact, that exactly because we have the opposite problem (ds (6) a delight at home and gruesome at school) we are into the world of educational psychologists etc. etc.

I agree with much of what has been said, especially about it being normal to behave well at school etc. and badly at home, but I do still feel that if a new situation is causing such major upheaval then I would question whether it was the right situation for my child to be in at that point. The fact that most children react like this when sent to preschool does not mean that it is desirable for them to be put in a situation where they feel this way. But that is probably a discussion for another thread!

I agree that children do all have ups and downs and that growing up can be stressful and unsettling for them at times. However I think usually we as parents can recognise when it is just "an awkward phase" and when perhaps the child is struggling and needs some help. I think YG's first instinct is that there is something wrong here and I think that she should listen to her intuition.

We are going through exactly the same thing with DD aged 4 atm as well yorkiegirl, and on talking to the other parents in the playground we aren't the only ones So I am happy to put it down to just being a phase that they seem to go through. I also mentioned it to her teacher and asked if there was anything we should be aware of, apparently she is a model student and plays well with all her peers, it's just at home she turns into a horror.

Check with the Nursery to set your mind at rest , however, it probably just a phse and she will grow out of it eventually. Try star charts or the pasta jar.

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Bink**
We seem to have a similar problem, my dd is 6 and is playing up badly at school but ok at home, the teacher wants to put her on the SEN register to moniter and my health visitor has asked if I want her referring to a paedeatricion, forgive the spelling, but am at my wits end not knowing why she is behaving like this apart from it being an attention thing

How many sessions does she do at pre-school? I agree with most people that she seems to be letting off steam at home after the huge efforts of coping at pre-school but I do agree heartily with franny when she says you don't have to accept this for your daughter if it really troubles you! Perhaps she has too much on her plate? Pre-school is not a legal requirement, you can do as few sessions as you like - maybe she needs a little more time at home? Obviously you know her and this might not be the case. All I know is that my DS does just two sessions a week and is coping well with this - he can be extra bossy when he comes home, re-asserting himself I suppose, but I don't get these major issues or tears on picking up.

And before you say it, I know pre-school is to prepare them for school but I think personally that having a few sessions on their own at pre-school each week, coupled with some other activities in and out of the home, should give most children a good enough grounding to be able to cope when school comes. I think nowadays we're always rushing to prepare kids for the next thing.

Don't know if this is any use at all, it may be that you already do less than five sessions a week anyway, in which case I would go along with everyone else and say it is a phase and to do with her learning to process everything she experiences.

cheltenhamgal, lots sympathy. My feeling about all this is take all the help you are offered, including paediatricians, even if your heart is in your mouth about it. Knowing more can't ever hurt (I think) and ideas can always help.

Is it a recent thing with your dd? My ds has always had this split - at home he is amenable and sweet but with these huge non-stop ideas about what he wants to read/draw/make; but at school of course he's got to fit in with everyone else on their terms and their time and although we are working and working on it he is NOT good at that.

I agree that it could be tiredness, do they let them have a rest in the afternoon? She's dealing with all these new things, full days at school, social life, learning things, independance and yet she probably misses you lots. My dd still cries at school sometimes because she misses me.

Tell them at school what she is like at home, just in case there is another explanation. But after school can you not spend perhaps 20 mins with her going through her day and just spending one2one with her? She hasn't seen you all day and is probably jealous of your ds spending all this time with you. Then when she does get to see you, you have other priorities to deal with too, you cannot give her that personal attention that she needs.

It's a confusing time, but the things they relate to at this age are rules, because it helps them to feel secure. She is just testing those rules atm because she feels less secure, but stand firm and she'll soon blend back into family life!

Sorry, I meant to put dd in there not ds.

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Is childminder a better option maybe? More one to one, more home-like environment? How is she when she has been at the childminder's?

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Agree with Marina - ds1 went through a horrible phase like this when he first started in reception in September. A sticker chart, probably combined with him becoming more settled though probably, really worked wonders.

He would come out of school and throw his bags at me and hit me - SO out of character - and then be mean and horrible to ds2 and ds3 for about the first hour after school.

It settled after the sticker chart had been going a couple of week.

Hi Yorkiegirl - no personal experience here but friends who have children in reception at the moment say their behaviour is much worse at home since starting school. They compare it to a child having so much 'naughty' behaviour to get out in one day - and if they are really well behaved at school, then you're going to get it at home.

Also, point out that their children have become really bossy - giving instructions to their younger brother/sister like they get from their teacher (lol - you should recognise I think?!)

I guess it's worth having a word at school/nursery about how they deal with bad behaviour there, in case you can pick up any tips (ie are they doing something which is working with your dd but 'scaring' her?)

YG - sympathies. Agree with others that her behaviour could be due to tiredness. Do you think the tears could be that or does it not seem like it to you?

YG I agree with others here, often a child has to let it all out in th ecomfort zone of home - after all that good behaviour at school. It's really common.
But as Marina says, that doesn't mean it is acceptable. I would try star charts or some reward, maybe something she can do with you since she is now such a big girl (that kind of thing always works well here). My kids love to go out to lunch with me eg as a star chart treat (!bizarre I know!)