My 3 year old DS has been bitten 4 times by same boy at nursery.

[Emsmom]

My son has been at his nursery for two to three mornings a week for 18 months. No incidents to report until the one I will explain. He really enjoys it there, has some nice friends and very caring staff. He found it hard to sepearate from me but in time has really thrived.

A few months ago anothr boy started in the nursery who is about 2 and a half. In this time my son has been bitten by him four times. Once on the face, once on the hand and twice on the back. The back bites have been bad. The most recent bite this week was bad enough that a full upper and power teeth mark set in and the skin was peeling. I had to take my son to a and e. The first three times I let the nursery reassure me that they were trying to deal with it, working with mum etc. But now I have had enough. Since the first bite my son has been scared of this boy, cries out his name in his sleep saying "no no and then the boys name". He asked me every day before nursery if the boy will be there and if it is one of the two days they share he begs me not to take him.

I fell terrible subjecting my son to this. It isn't right anymore. I know my son is no angel and I am not pretending he has never hit anyone or snatched a toy. But this seems over the line. After the last bite I saw the mum during the pick up on the path outside. I introduced myself and my son, explained the situation, and calmly showed her the bite. The nursery had been telling me that they were making the mum aware, but I wasn't sure she realised how bad things were. I waited until there were no other mums around as I wasn't trying to embarrass her, but I really need some action to be taken. She apologised at the time but has subsequently complained about me to the nursery that other parents may have seen our discussion. So now she is very angry with me for alienating her son.

Staff tell me he has bitten other children, and that the bites are mostly unprovoked.

I have now arranged to move one of my sons nursery days so that they will now only have one conflicting day. My only other option is to remove my son from that day, reducing his time there to two days. As he is starting reception in September, I didn't want his time to go down and had been considering increasing it except for this issue.

Sorry for the long post, but my real question is, what would you expect from the nursery at this point? Should I be complaining to ofsted? Ay advice from anyone?

Also, if you're going to quote, don't quote the first part of a clause and cut it off at the comma.

I said:

"it's not the parent's responsibility in this instance because it's not a malicious behaviour, a child of this age can't be reasoned with it after the event as they don't have the language and the only solution is environmental modification which the parent can't dictate at nursery"

e.g. the behaviour lacks forethought and can't be dealt with hours after the event, so a parent can't do anything effective as they are not there at the only moment that counts with toddler biting.

Nursery will suggest anything they can do e.g. like work on sleeping routines if tiredness is a factor, look at diet etc. Not the OP's job to do this, and she can't possibly help either her or the parent as the parent is not likely to be able to be objective in this situation and will just feel shit and mortified.

My point is that it won't help anyone for parents without a relationship to discuss this issue in the nursery carpark and it should be left to those with training to come up with an action plan.

You're really just picking up on words for the sake of it here, aren't you brdgrl?
erm, no, not at all.

Please tell me how exactly you propose the parent takes action here that wouldn't have been taken as a result of the nursery dealing with this. Just one thing they can do as a result of the OP approaching them that will change the situation for the OP and her child will do fine, thanks.

One thing? Easy. A personal, genuine, expression of concern for my imnjured and traumatised child and a reassurance that the parent is aware of the severity of the problem and is working with the nursery to address it.

An apology would be nice, too - but oh wait -that's three things. Probably much more than you think a parent should have to bother with; after all, they've paid someone else to deal with it, haven't they?

You're welcome.

I cut if off not to change the meaning (it didn't) but for brevity - sorry that bothered you. Here it is in your preferred full sentence form:
"it's not the parent's responsibility in this instance because it's not a malicious behaviour, a child of this age can't be reasoned with it after the event as they don't have the language and the only solution is environmental modification which the parent can't dictate at nursery"

ANd here is my unchanged response - but intent, malice, etc - doesn't matter. Still the parent's responsibility.

It did change the meaning, all three were combined with an "and" as the meaning I intended was related to all three aspects.

I really don't understand your response: "One thing? Easy. A personal, genuine, expression of concern for my imnjured and traumatised child and a reassurance that the parent is aware of the severity of the problem and is working with the nursery to address it."

How does this change anything in real terms? This doesn't actually answer the question. How is this going to make any difference to what happens in the next session in nursery? All it can do is validate the parent's feelings when really, how is the OP to know, in this instance, that the trauma being experienced by the child who has bitten isn't equal to the trauma being experienced by the parent of the child who has been bitten (e.g. this behaviour reflects severe special needs or dire emotional/behavioural disturbance?)

There's a reason that it is best for the professional and objective staff to deal with this situation. They have the full facts and they have the responsibility to ensure future safeguarding (as the parents can't do anything as they are not there).

If you really think the staff at nursery are not responsible for managing your child's behaviour at nursery, then they are not really responsible for safeguarding it either. It would be just as easy to say "well it's not really their responsibility to ensure your child doesn't get nipped". Sounds ludicrous, doesn't it? They are opposite sides of the same coin. They are responsible for managing normal toddler behaviour, seeking extra help/resources when they can't manage vis usual channels and liaising with parents in both instances.

I would want the nursery to reassure me this wouldn't happen again. I would want to trust the nursery were professional enough to communicate the severity to the parent of the other child and work with them to reduce any behaviours. I would think the fact details were kept confidential was a pretty clear sign that it wasn't really my business to raise it with the child's parent and I would also know that, realistically, if I did raise my anger/hurt/upset with a parent of another child it would most likely make them feel terrible and do nothing for me.

You don't think an apology or even a recognition and reassurance from the other parent makes any difference to the parent of an injured child. I can only say that it certainly would to me and I suspect to many others.

And although my child has never been injured to the point of requiring medical attention, she has been (like many kids) hurt by another child - not through malice - and the parent's acknowledgement and concern did make a difference to me.

It is my business to safeguard my child - not the nursery's. I use the services of the nursery to assist me in that task, not to absolve me of it. In this case, also, the nursery was clearly not dealing adequately with the situation and as a parent, it would be my right, if not my responsibility, to do more - including speaking to the other parent.

As the other parent, I woud still have responsibility for my child's behaviour, even when in someone else's care. That is not the same as saying that the nursery has no responsibility, and I have never said any such thing, if you look at my posts. But one doesn't just drop one's kid off at the door and walk away. Moreover, if my child were injuring others at nursery or elsewhere, I'd need to think about whether it was the right place for my child to be - not just rely on their judgement, which had already been demonstrated to be insufficient given that this happened multiple times. You are saying stay out of it and let the professionals sort it out, but the professionals were not resolving the situation. It is lax to leave all the responsibility for this kind of situation with the nursery.

brdgrl you are still missing the point that the nursery is not allowed to tell either parent which child is biting theirs, or their child is biting. The only reason the OP knows is that her child has been able to give the name. She has then taken it upon herself (I presume) to find out who the parent is and confront her.

I've checked back on my old posts and my DD bit over a 4 month period from 19 to 23 months. She didn't speak, and the biting started when another child was taking toys off her. I did find out later on which child she was biting but only because it was a small nursery and one of the others appeared with a bruise. I was nearly tieing myself in knots about it, coming on here for advice every time, endless conversations with nursery. The worry about being asked to remove her (would you be able to take unpaid leave for 4 months?!). The last thing I needed was an irate mother demanding apologies. I lived in fear of being cornered in the car park.

Once she'd stopped biting, my DD got a really nasty bite on her arm that took over a week to heal. I used it as an opportunity to discuss with my DD how much it hurt, and that it hurt like that when she bit other people. I made no attempt whatsoever to find out who bit her and track down their parent to make them apologise. It didn't even occur to me. Toddlers bite. They pinch and scratch and pull hair. It is normal, if unpleasant. Feel lucky if yours doesn't go through it.

Brdgrl - all educational settings, including nurseries, preschools, schools, colleges, childminders, etc, will have a "safeguarding policy". You would have been asked to ready and sign it when you entered into a contract with the setting. Whilst the child is in that setting the setting is responsible for the safeguarding of the child.

brdgrl you are still missing the point that the nursery is not allowed to tell either parent which child is biting theirs, or their child is biting. The only reason the OP knows is that her child has been able to give the name. She has then taken it upon herself (I presume) to find out who the parent is and confront her.
I'm not missing that point. But in fact, she does know. And knowing, chose to talk to the other parent. The bresach of confientiality is certainly relevant to the discussion, but in no way changes my own response as posted here. If I were the approached parent, I would apologise, because that would be the right thing to do, regardless of whether the nursery had done the right thing. (Which I have never suggested; I think they have mishandled the whole thing!) If I had a problem with the breach, I would take that up with the nursery, definitely, but it is a separate point to my remarks about responsibility and the rationale for an apology.

To address another of your statements, I don't think my opinion on this is dependent on the fact that my DD is not/not yet a biter. I hope she won't be. I have no idea. As I have repeatedly stated, I don't think it is somehow an indicator of poor parenting. My position is two-fold. 1, that the parent of any child whose behaviour harms another child - however motivated or wherever it occurs - is responsible for trying to make things better to the best of his or her ability - even if all one can do is demonstrate concern and coperation. and 2, that when a parent uses a childcare service, it does not transfer all responsibility to the service provider.

Obviously, we disagree. So be it. If your child is repeatedly injured, some of you will choose to let the people who allowed the injury to be repeated, sort it out. You will absolve the parent(s) of the child of all responsibility for protecting their own or other children, saying it is not 'your business'. Mind-boggling.

It is a very instructuctive thread, anyway! I'll leave you to it.

Brdgrl - all educational settings, including nurseries, preschools, schools, colleges, childminders, etc, will have a "safeguarding policy". You would have been asked to ready and sign it when you entered into a contract with the setting. Whilst the child is in that setting the setting is responsible for the safeguarding of the child.
Yes, I said I'd leave you to it, and will do so, but I cross-posted with this last remark and would like to address it.
Look. The nursery already failed to safeguard the kids. Ultimately, the responsibility for your child's safety is your's. You can make a contract with a provider. But when the institution or individual with who you have a contract fails to keep your child safe, it is up to you to take the next step.

Are you seriously going to suggest that if a teacher abuses a child, the parent do nothing, because after all, there is a contract? Of course not. If the system fails your child and you know it has and you do nothing, that is irresponsible and very very wrong.

Brdgrl, how would you take it up with the nursery, when they didn't tell, it was the OP's child?

I think everyone would apologise, wholeheartedly and unreservedly, but that would change nothing for either child and would, essentially, just result in a very uncomfortable and upsetting interaction for the parent of the biting child. How is that supposed to make the person whose child has bitten feel better? I don't get any kick out of making other parents feel bad about their child, perhaps you do?

Perhaps you would understand it better if it was made clear that whether you believe you have responsibility at all times for your child's actions or not, you most certainly do not have responsibility for the other child, and really, by approaching their parent you are interfering in nursery business as you have neither the facts, knowledge, training or experience to offer anything useful. So it is purely about finding validation for your own trauma, not that of your child (who won't really care, either way at this age, about adult apologies).

I felt so strongly about my child's biting that having investigated all the reasons, I moved him from nursery. I managed this all my own without some parent "helpfully" making me feel bad about child's actions so that I could offer them some tear-filled apology. Parents and nurseries can work this out together and most parents will take action if they believe that a nursery isn't preventing their child from biting appropriately without the other parent intervening. It is a bit arrogant to think that the other parent "needs" to be told what is happening in this way, given that they will have been given that information by the nursery as per the law.

My child has bitten and has been bitten. He had a terrible bruise on his forehead for about two weeks and we thought he had concussion because another child knocked him off a bike. In our case, ds is in a baby room with one other toddler so all incidents that occur happen between the pair of them so I knew instantly who "did it", just as I knew instantly that when I was told he had hit out at a child, it was this child he had struck. I would never have felt I needed an apology from the other parent, though, even if my son had never done anything to her child. I just assume this is all par for the course. Toddlers do this. If you don't want your child to ever be in a situation where they experience or perpetrate toddler-toddler violence, really you need to be with them and not put them in a childcare setting and keep them away from their peers. This is life for toddlers, thankfully most grow out of it fairly quickly with good management.

I am the mum of someone who has been bitten 3 times on both arms the same day and one more the previous week! It is very upsetting, especially when my child now thinks that it is ok and started to bite his own arms! I really don't want him to learn to retaliate especially when we are about to have another child. I know that bites happen and I really don't need the identity of either the mother or the child as that doesn't help me or them however I do expect to hear the mum's concern through the nursery and expect her to follow their advice which in this case is the advice of the experts not only for being present when the bites happened but for their experience in dealing with children. An apology doesn't resolve the problem but does indeed reassure the mother about the other's parent's intention to cooperate with the problem not only for the child who has been bitten but the behavioural problem of the child who bites. I believe that the nursery plays a massive role is resolving the issue and it is for them to make all reasonable and beyond if possible, endeavours to avoid a further biting episode. Most nurseries (as it should be) have enough members of staff to be able to look after children at all times otherwise they wouldn't have the licence and wouldn't charge so much for nursery fees, so it is not unreasonable and in fact it is expected for a nursery to accept full responsibility and do everything to resolve the situation and especially to put both mothers' mind at rest. How many bites is too many to start resolving the issue with ofsted instead of the nursery?

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I just wanted yo say how grateful I am for reading this discussion. My nearly 3 year old bit a boy in his face last week & this morning the mum came up to me to talk about it. The preschool hadn't said who the biter was but the child had told the mum who it was. After apologising repeatedly, I came home & cried. Felt absolutley terrible about it and felt like I was failing my child in some way. I know its common but it doesn't make it easier to cope with. My son only started a few weeks ago and this was the first instance at preschool. He has in the past bitten friends and his brother over toys (never on the face i must add) and hadn't biten for a couple of months so thought the phase had passed. It's hard for everyone concerned.