My 3 year old DS has been bitten 4 times by same boy at nursery.

[Emsmom]

My son has been at his nursery for two to three mornings a week for 18 months. No incidents to report until the one I will explain. He really enjoys it there, has some nice friends and very caring staff. He found it hard to sepearate from me but in time has really thrived.

A few months ago anothr boy started in the nursery who is about 2 and a half. In this time my son has been bitten by him four times. Once on the face, once on the hand and twice on the back. The back bites have been bad. The most recent bite this week was bad enough that a full upper and power teeth mark set in and the skin was peeling. I had to take my son to a and e. The first three times I let the nursery reassure me that they were trying to deal with it, working with mum etc. But now I have had enough. Since the first bite my son has been scared of this boy, cries out his name in his sleep saying "no no and then the boys name". He asked me every day before nursery if the boy will be there and if it is one of the two days they share he begs me not to take him.

I fell terrible subjecting my son to this. It isn't right anymore. I know my son is no angel and I am not pretending he has never hit anyone or snatched a toy. But this seems over the line. After the last bite I saw the mum during the pick up on the path outside. I introduced myself and my son, explained the situation, and calmly showed her the bite. The nursery had been telling me that they were making the mum aware, but I wasn't sure she realised how bad things were. I waited until there were no other mums around as I wasn't trying to embarrass her, but I really need some action to be taken. She apologised at the time but has subsequently complained about me to the nursery that other parents may have seen our discussion. So now she is very angry with me for alienating her son.

Staff tell me he has bitten other children, and that the bites are mostly unprovoked.

I have now arranged to move one of my sons nursery days so that they will now only have one conflicting day. My only other option is to remove my son from that day, reducing his time there to two days. As he is starting reception in September, I didn't want his time to go down and had been considering increasing it except for this issue.

Sorry for the long post, but my real question is, what would you expect from the nursery at this point? Should I be complaining to ofsted? Ay advice from anyone?

My DD was a biter. She picked on one particular child at nursery - no idea why.

Ladymontdore you say "tbh I'd be expecting her to come and speak to me about it so if she didn't I'd wonder if she knew". The nursery are not allowed to tell either parent which other child is involved. The biters mother will know he's biting but not who.

I was absolutely mortified that my DD was biting, but also totally powerless. I wasn't at nursery with her, and she didn't do it anywhere else. At that point she couldn't speak, so we did wonder if it was frustration. Had the other child's mother tackled me about it I'd have been so embarrassed I'd have burst into tears and probably ended up having a row with her. You don't approach the other parent. (I take it all those saying you should haven't been through this themselves).

OP your nursery is at fault because they don't seem to be dealing with it. I know when we were going through it, and there were mutterings about excluding her, someone on MN pointed out that it's an OFSTED requirement for nurseries to d/w biting because it happens! Our nursery made sure that someone shadowed DD all the time (and she was FT at that point) and kept her away from the little girl she was biting. It didn't stop it completely but did cut down the incidents.

We moved house when DD was 2.5 and she never bit at the new nursery, but I can't remember when she stopped. At the time it seemed to be going on for ever. You need to have a meeting with the Head of the nursery and your DS's keyworker and ask them what they are doing to keep your DS safe, and why he is still being bitten. It is up to them to sort it out. And I can assure you that it's far far worse to be the mother of the biter than the bitee.

So, Gladys, you say the nursery can't tell the biters mother who she has bitten, so she can't know. However this does not apply to the mother of the bitten child, she can do what she wants! And all the more reason for the two mothers to talk. I understand that you can't directly supervise your child when they are at nursery but you are still the parent and presumably take some sort of responsibilty for their behaviour (eg reward chart for no biting at nursery that you fill in at home). I still don't think that the mother of the bitten child should refrain from talking to the mother of the biter to spare her blushes. The number one priority is stop the poor child being bitten!

I think your saying 'it's worse to be the mother of the biter' may be coloured by your own experience. If my child was being bitten and having nightmares about it I think I might disagree with you!

Ah. So the conversation with the parent would be to explain to them that they 'need to take responsibility' and possibly try a 'reward chart'

Those two earth shattering suggestions would smooth things right along I'm sure.

The priority is to stop the child being bitten. Which is why you address your concerns to the person supervising the children.

Is there something you would expect the mother of the child to be able to do about it? Genuinely interest here. DD bit another child today and I don't know what I'd do about it if someone approached me, other than burst into tears at the moment.

Ds was bitten twice by a boy at his nursery, and then he was attacked, his face gouged so badly it's still scarred 18 months later.

The nursery said that if we asked for him to be excluded then they would do it, as he had attacked other children. Fortunately the child left a few weeks later, I hate to think what would have happened otherwise

my son was a biter, it's what drove me to mumsnet in the first place! agree with pagwatch 100%

it's the most awful feeling as a parent, being told your child is biting others, it's really hard to deal with, especially when you aren't there to watch over them!

find it hard to read that people would like a 2 year old removed from the setting!

I am 100% with Pagwatch.

Let's just look at this. The "biter" is two and a half. This is not a "behavioural" problem, it most likely has nothing to do with this child's upbringing and everything to do with this child's development (biting is, I hate to tell you all, a normal enough means of communicating in children who are stressed and not capable of expressing that in another way and/or ignored when they do).

What in God's earth could the mother do? Seriously? What would ANY of you who say that it's right to bring it up with the mother DO?

The confidentiality aspect is NOT actually because of concerns about what the biter's parents would do but to stop this type of ridiculous playground politics when biting is just one of those things in toddlers!.

It is absolutely about management, and really nothing to do with parenting.

My son bit three times at nursery at about the age of 18 months. The nursery had 76 children on the roll of the room he had recently moved in to, he had single word communication (totally developmentally normal for that age) and was in a room of children who were much, much bigger than him (18 - 3 years, and there were very few of his own age). His keyworker changed three times in six weeks, so he had no primary attachment figure.

We moved his nursery but NOT because he was biting, because biting highlighted just how shoddy the place was despite its "good" Ofsted rating. He has never bitten again and now, as I am lucky enough to have a typically developing child who can communicate in 2-4 word sentences at 2;1, he deals with things verbally instead.

I mean, what's the issue here? "Oh Mrs X, how remiss of you to have your child in a nursery where you believe that he will be stimulated and communicated with so that he isn't bored/frustrated/tired enough to bite others? Look at what your son has done to my child because you dare to go out to work and expect that his behaviour will be shaped and supported in nursery?" And, God forbid, this behaviour is because this child is developmentally maybe not speaking or capable of other behaviour to show frustration and other emotions, what would you say then... "See, Mrs X, this is what happens when you REPRODUCE?"

It is up to the NURSERY to deal with this behaviour. If the NURSERY are not dealing with it appropriately, your issue is with THEM and THEM alone. They are the adults in charge, not the mother. Good grief!

DD was a biter for about 10 mths when I was pregnant with / had DS, she was about 15 mths - 2 1/2.

She once bit someone's 6 mth old baby, I was mortified and ended up crying outside the playgroup. It is horrible for all concerned. In her case I think it started as a teething thing and became an attention thing once I was pregnant / DS arrived.

When it got really bad I had to shadow her at playgroup and social situations. Baby DS balanced on my hip as I trudged round after her. I learnt to sense when it was going to happen and was fairly successful at intervening. This phase probably lasted about 3 mths, then the biting really slowed down and eventually stopped.

So I would suggest to the nursery that they need to shadow the biter, I realise that's going to be difficult for them, but so is explain to parents that their child has been bitten for the 5th time.

Also, any of you who really think that toddlers "attack" and should be "excluded" are being brainwashed by substandard nurseries who are not following good practice in their management of child behaviour, are most likely not adhering to appropriate supervision guidelines and are probably failing your child in all sorts of ways you just don't get to hear about. If your child is being bitten consistently, or is biting consistently, look carefully at what the nursery is doing to deal with it. If there isn't a child-centred, focused plan in place just think of all the other things they're probably getting wrong that your child can't tell you about. Blame a toddler and ignore the real problem at your peril....

Working, my son was attacked. There is no other word for it unfortunately. The boy was nearly 4, so not a toddler. One of the scars is less than half an inch from his eye and is 2 inches long.

As a nursery nurse, biters are more common than you think. I had one little child who would bite any other child in their path, sometimes out of anger, sometimes being playful.

When they first started they were too young to understand it was a bad thing to do (he was about 10 months) and it is hard to articulate to a baby about rights and wrongs. It carried on for months. We had parents complain (they didn't actually know who the child was, it's not information we are allowed to disclose) and another ask if the biter could be moved to a different room (we would say if it was the same child who bit one child more than once if they asked, just not their name). We had parents ask us who the parent was but we always refused. Confidentiality policy.

We tried every tactic we have in place and nothing worked. Nothing. No amount of removing him from the situation, telling off etc worked. And you simply can't exclude a child from activities because that's discrimination and not in any way allowed. We even called in senior managers to ask for ways of dealing with it.

The parent didn't understand, she said they never did it at home so it wasn't something she herself could teach or implement tactics because she never experienced it.

I left before it was sorted so I have no idea of the outcome.

There isn't a lot you can do in your situation, except to try teach your child to walk away from conflict before a bite can occur. It's hard for nurseries to do discipline actions due to the red tape and legalities involved. And to exclude a child because of misbehaviour is discrimination - not allowed.

Hope it gets all sorted soon. And try to avoid approaching parents about their children - if there is a problem between 2 children at the same nursery, arrange to have a mediator such as the nursery manager or child's key worker. Never challenge another parent. It does not end well.

Also, they are not allowed to disclose if the child has other 'targets'. That's bad practice. If there is an incident between 2 children at nursery, they aren't even allowed to say who the other child was. I'm surprised they informed you of that.

Obviously you wouldn't tell them they were a crap parent!
I would simply approach the mother and say in a friendly but concerned voice (as if I was sympathetic with her for feeling bad about it) 'Oh, hi I'm xxx, yyy's mother, I think it might be your little boy that has bitten him a couple of times?' and then take it from there. I'd probably be ready to follow up her embarresed appologies with an 'I'm sure it's just a stage' and an anecdote about my dd biting me on the bum (she did) . I'd just want to be sure that she was aware and want to know that she cared. Yes it might be a bit akward, but facing problems can be tough, doesn't mean they should be ignored though.

I truely don't get why that's a problem.

Geordie, you're missing my point. The boy may very well have been four, but ultimately the responsibility is the setting's, not the child's. If the child has emotional/behavioural difficulties, a home situation that enabled that sort of behaviour to develop or SEN, there are many, many mechanisms for a good setting to deal with this appropriately and prevent it happening again, including assessment to get appropriate support. Blaming children prevents poor settings from proper scrutiny for poor practice.

DS was a biting "victim" at his previous nursery, always by the same child who was younger than him and quite a lot smaller than him. It also happened 4 times. The nursery never told me who it was, but DS was old enough to fill me in, and I actually caught him doing it the fourth time as I was there to collect DS. Unfortunately, I couldn't stop it as I wasn't close by.

At any rate, I complained to the nursery. I told them it was completely unacceptable for the behaviour to continue as it was hurting my DS and upsetting him. They told me that all they could do was separate the children in order to minimise the opportunities for incidents, and keep and extra close eye on him.

I think is age had a lot ot do with it, as his communication skills were far less developed than my DS's. Also, I had heard that there were issues at home too which could have been having an impact.

There's really not much else you can do besides, and I agree with the poster above who said that exclusion (especially at pre-school level) should be an absolute last resort. I'm sure you'd feel the same if it were your DC who was the biter - I don't think you'd appreciate suddenly having to arrange a new child care solution at the drop of a hat because of what is actually quite a "normal" behavioural issue.

Hmmm, I kind of want to agree with you Lady but can't quite. I know what you intend I think but truthfully, it will achieve nothing positive because a 'don't exhibit this behaviour over the next eight hours and you will get a star' won't work with a two year old. Or three year old. Or probably four year old.

So it seems to come down to your wanting to know that she cares. Is the embarrassment (all on her side) humiliation (all on her side) and pointlessness of it a fair exchange for your knowing that she cares?

And in the 1 in 100 chance that she says 'fuck off' what actual difference would that make either. It would be exquisite vindication of any sneaking suspicion that she is a shit parent but that doesn't really help.

I get the desire to speak with her. But I cannot see a single positive except possibly a silent 'your child did this to mine' moment to make bitees mum feel she has done something.

I am not being sarcastic. I do understand the desire to raise it. I just cannot see how it actually helps

As the mum of a biter ( she has only bitten twice, different children) i would be mortified and fuming if a mum came up to me.

I am aware of my daughters behavioural issues, they go alongside her developmental delay, severe speech and language delay, and hearing loss.

I am also aware that this is not an excuse.

The biting incident occurred when the nursery did not have someone shadowing her. I was angry at the nursery for allowing her to bite someone. They have a responsibility for safeguarding. This includes safeguarding others from her.

After the 2nd incident I pulled her out of nursery until 1:1 was available, as I did not want my dd to be put in a situation where she felt she had to bite as it is a sign of stress/anxiety in my dds case.

It has taken 3 months from them applying for funding to get dd a 1:1 to a 1:1 being employed.

OP please try not to assume that the mum does not care, or is not as angry as you are. But as previous posters have said, the fault is not with the mum or the child, it is ultimately with the nursery .

Lady, my DD was bitten at nursery after she'd stopped doing it, so I have seen both sides. I wasn't told who had bitten her, just as I wasn't told who she'd bitten. She didn't speak so she couldn't tell me. I really still don't see why you'd need to approach the other mother, unless it is ultimately to watch her squirm.

A reward chart? Honestly? For an under two who is at nursery for 8 hours a day?

OP says the biter is two and a half so I'd certainly be trying a reward chart.

Still don't get why any mother of a biter would be angry at the mother of the bitten child. Angry with nursery, yes, upset at what the child has done, yes. But not angry with the mother - I would think most people would want to appologise and work together and at least acknowledge the problem. For example going together to see the nursery to insist they monitor the children better.

I don't think a child who bites that severely and consistently as the OP describes should be in that setting.

You can't expect the nursery staff to pre empt every single scenario where the child may bite. It is very difficult to predict even for the parents when this is likely to happen exactly and not all staff have the same level of experience. Some of you are expecting way too much.

Surely the best thing for the time being is to keep other children safe until the problem has been dealt with. It usually is a short phase so the child can return. If I were the OP I would be hugely apologetic and would not actually want to put my child in a position where they are hurting others.

I say this for the situation described in the OP - for severe bites to a single child, causing fear and nightmares.

I agree with Pagwatch and others.

The mum is not there, what can she do?

Like it or not biting is normal behavior, its not desirable behavior but it is normal.

This is an issue for the nursery to address and it can be done [as Rita explains]

I can understand your frustration OP but its the nursery you need to be dealing with not the mum.

I don't think it was wrong of her to approach the mother, if someone approached me to let me know that my child had injured theirs then I would apologise and try and find out the circs.

If it was at nursery then I would be talking to the nursery about how to secure the safety of other children.

If they could not do that and my child was injuring other children I would probably look for a different nursery where they could keep everyone safe, or remove my child until the phase had passed, or something. I wouldn't keep sending them in knowing they were hurting the other children like this on a regular basis.

To those of you who feel the biter's mother should apologise, can you explain exactly why and for what?
She didn't bite anybody. Unless you think her child is biting because of something she's done wrong, why should she be apologising?

Reward charts at home for behaviour at school will have no impact in this age range, they need consistent and immediate

Also, four incidents is not that frequent that a nursery can't be expected to cope . They can get extra funding to provide support if a child's biting is so frequent that 1:1 is required (which would usually be in the case of biting associated with the stress/anxiety that comes with developmental delay or other significant issues).

Still don't see what the mother is supposed to do?

She should appologise because she is the child's mother. Not a great example to set your children if you refuse to appologise for wrong actions, and not a very good way of showing that you are a caring member of the community. Also not a great way of easing yourself through a difficult situation. As the mother of a biter I would think that if you appeared concerned and appolgetic then people will be 'on your side' (ie thinking 'poor x, she's really upset but it's a difficult time for her) and supporting you. If you refuse to appologise and get angry / defensive then I don't think you can expect much sympathy!