Devastated by news from school

[Sickboy]

Hi all. Another of my all-too infrequent visits.

Eldest son's childminder told me today that he had to spend playtime sitting outside the headmistress' office because - he'd bumped into a little girl and knocked her over... but then kicked her when she was on the ground and bloodied her nose.

He's five and has had one or two issues with playing a little too roughly, but before today I wold have sworn that he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body.

I'm absolutely gutted at how a tall, solid, strong, lively, funny and intelligent boy can lash out like this. He knows it's wrong because he goes to a martial arts class where the first rule is 'Never attack anybody'.

We're seeing his headmistress about it tomorrow and I have a queasy mixture of dread, embarrassment and anger.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

On a lighter note, my youngest - Josh - is fourteen months and absolutely glorious.

Sigh.

No advice but just wanted you to know someone had read your post. Hope someone can offer you some good advice

i would wait until you know the full story. you may well find out that the girl he "bumped into" had punched him first or something!
not that it makes the kicking her any better... but at least it gives a reason for it!

Agree, get the full story. What does he say about it. Can understand your shock and dismay.

Is it possible he kicked her by accident? He could have bumped into her, fallen over, and kicked her in the process?

What does he say happened?

Can understand how you must but he is also only 5. Still very young and I know my DD at 5 did things that were wrong but she still didnt have a full handle on how not to express anger.

Sounds to me as though the whole thing could have been an accident, with the bloody nose happening as a result of her landing unexpectedly on the ground. We all know how children will insist that the other child did it "deliberately", because that is how it seems to them even when it is a complete accident.

Have you asked your ds what happened? Maybe he was outside the head's office because he was running in school and that's how he knocked the little girl over - not because he did anything malicious.

Getting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth from even the most honest and trustworthy child is nigh on impossible.

Having been on the receiving end of a situation like this once, I would suggest that if the head insists on seeing you alone, and not with the other child and her parents, you should request that both children and both sets of parents are interviewed at the same time.

Cheers, everyone.

After my initial outrage, I did sit him down and calmly asked him to take me through what happened.

I definitely need to talk to a teacher who saw it happen because his description is a little confused.

peckarollover - I think there is an aspect of inappropriate expression of anger and the situation in my mind (wilfully kicking someone in the face when they're on the floor) is probably more adult-ised than it should be.

Thanks for the support. I'll let you all know how it goes...

I remember being really upset when a similar thing happened with my ds, who would have been about 5 at the time.

He was severely told off, made to see the Head, and left in no doubt that what he had done was wrong.

However, his teacher knew how bothered I was, and said that many boys go thru' a fairly aggressive stage, and whilst physical aggression needs to be discouraged, they understood that it was part of growing up!

He's now 13, and one of the most considerate boys you could meet.

As I suspected, there was a strong aspect of Chinese Whispers about the whole thing.

What actually happened was, he kicked a Year 3 girl in the stomach. Which is hardly reassuring, but at least it's slightly less obnoxious than kicking someone a lot smaller in the head - when they're already down.

We were told that, because he's above-average size for his age, he's quite dominant in the playground and is starting to gain a bit of a reputation for aggressive play. I think his problem is between thought and action - because he's very good at saying all the right things once the deed is done (sorry, never do it again, etc).

So I'm gonna try to get him to focus on that moment before he does something inappropriate by adding a star sticker to a book when he has a good day in the playground (his teacher is gonna make notes to help). I've taken his most loved toy - Nintendo DS - away, and he knows that he has to fill 10 spots in his sticker book to get it back. I think that's better than just saying he's banned from it for two weeks, because he can actively work towards getting it back, see how well he's doing, how far he's got to go, etc...

Anyway, thanks for the advice, all. Hopefully, things will improve soon...

talk to his sensei about your concerns. he should know strategies that he can stress (in the dojo) to your boy about appropriate aggression and controlling one's physical strength. he would also reinforce that this is also necessary in rl.

Ah, man.

After a great weekend where I was constantly reinforcing how he had to behave at school on Monday, loads of time with me and play and going to a preview (I work for a film magazine) he kicked someone else in the playground, today.

My wife called me on the way back from work, and I couldn't even feel any real anger. Just disappointment and deflation like I've never felt before.

I honestly don't know what to try next. I didn't say a word to him tonight. No bathtime fun, no bedtime story, no tuck-in, no kiss. Just couldn't summon the energy. There's a part of me that thinks a quiet rejection is going to be more effective than an all-barrels blowout of rage...

Jeez.

Sorry to hear that

Sounds awful for you

I have no helpful thoughts or advice sorry, just sympathy

Just speaking from my own childhood experience, I don't think quiet rejection will be good for him - sorry don't mean to sound judgemental, but it could really hurt him a lot. Better to talk it through with him, let him know he's still loved, and what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

But I know it's easy to say that when my DS is still a baby.

Oh crikey, your posts brought it all back to me. When ds1 was in yr1 he was in trouble in the playground for being violent and aggressive. I think it basically only lasted a couple of weeks, but it felt like a lifetime back then. I couldn't sleep at night, and was desperate with worry as to what was making him behave this way.
School were fantastic and really worked with us and with him to put across the message that this behaviour was completely unacceptable and dangerous.

I'm not sure I can think of any positive suggestions for you, but you certainly have my heartfelt sympathy.

Oh and hope for the future. Ds1 is now in yr4 (incidentally he too is very tall for his age)
and hasn't been in trouble at school at all for well over a year, and we've had no reports of violence/aggression for over 3 years.

Playground and behaviour: have you an idea of how well supervised the children are at playtimes? It might be worth asking, or visiting to see? If the supervisors are letting the more active children get rowdy it can escalate and then it's all too easy for a 5yo to get carried away. He's very young to be able to manage his own behaviour boundaries all the time, especially if he's in an exciting escalating kind of situation. (I have an over-excitable 6yo, by the way.)

Management by you: complete retreat might be confusing for him - you're also in a way asking him to sort out and resolve what he's done wrong all by himself. He needs help doing that, so I'd recommend serious (possibly even slightly overacted) daddy disappointment and sadness - rather boring unsmiling serious talks. If he's reading, a letter about how disappointed daddy is has had an effect on my ds.

Sympathies - it can be a long slow road getting an excitable child to be able to manage his impulses. It WILL get better, though.

Easier said than done, but don't take it to heart so. Yes, it is disappointing when these things happen, but it is all part of growing up, learning boundaries, assimilating new experiences. Different children react in different ways. I can remember being called into school when DS1 was in reception as he had walked up to a child in the playground (child was on the ground) and just kicked him. Turned out he'd been told to do it by another child and so just did it. It was wrong, but there was no real malice on his part; he was (and to a degree still is) an easily suggestable child. He's now in Y7, at grammar school, and is doing fantastically well.

He did have social issues when in YR. We worked with the school. The school had a card which was divided into 5 sections per day, for the week. If DS1 got through each section of the day without any trouble, he was allowed to put a sticker on that particular session. He came and told me how he had done each day - and, if he'd done well, his teacher ensured that she told me in front of him how well he'd done. I got him to choose some small inexpensive toys from the Argos catalogue. He then stuck these on a "river" I had drawn on a large sheet of paper. Every day he got 5 stickers on his card, he got to put a sticker on the river. After 4 stickers, he got the first toy. Then he had to get 5 stickers for the next toy, 6 for the next and so on. By the time we got to 10, he was doing really well and there was no need to do a new river.

This might work for you, or it might not. It is important, however, to ensure that he knows that it is the behaviour you don't like, not him. The silent treatment probably won't have the effect you want. Lots of love and cuddles and talks about how he should behave and how happy that makes you is more likely to have a lasting effect on him.

Huge thanks, everyone. All this is massively helpful. The anecdotes give me hope.

It's so tough to put aside my own feelings of wanting to unload with fury when he just goes ahead and does something we've spent the whole weekend talking over and explaining as wrong.

My wife is trying to get an appointment with the head-teacher tomorrow to emphasise how serious it is to him.

The temptation to disengage is strong, but I know I have to confront the problem and - as you say, snowleopard, he needs to be clear that it's the behaviour that I don't like, not him.

In case anyone's interested, I'll use this thread to keep a record of how it goes...

Thanks again, everyone. Cheers for taking the time to give me a bit of support.

Ah Sickboy, only just read this thread and lots of good advice I think. I have a 5-yr-old who has come a long long way in 2 years when he used to attack any child who 'invaded' his personal space (about 50 feet ) This incident sounds rather like him!
But even tho we (or he) got him out of it, I know there is always the potential for him to get over excited and over aggressive. He's very tall and very physical too. I don't know if I'll ever feel relaxed. So I wish you much luck and I will be following your thread with much interest - and a lot of empathy

He had a good day, today. My wife got him to call me at work and tell me and I laid on the praise nice and heavy - before retiring to the toilet to cry with relief.

Gonna be a long and bumpy road, I guess. But I'll take that as a good start.

Maybe you should lay off the martial arts lessons. Perhaps he isn't the sort of child who gets the supposedly pacifist message that is meant to come out of these places. I know they confuse me.

Great news that he's had a good day Sickboy. Hope the rest of the week continues well.

Glad he had a good day.

Have to say I agree with pph about the martial arts stuff. Why so young? He could maybe come back to it in a year or so's time when he has developed a bit more understanding and self control?

The kids who have agressive behaviour in my dd's school are well known for it by the other parents and the only ones who don't know about it seem to be their own parents. I wonder if this is because the kids are controlling themselves well at home and so the aggression comes out at school?

I know that kids who are perfect at school often blow off steam at home, and I think it also works the other way around. I think it would be good to give your son an outlet for physical agression - so the martial arts sounds good, and maybe some other opportunities to get physical in a safe way?

Also quite good to talk about situations in a neutral way - eg by using puppets (both at home and at school - dd's teacher often does this). This enables you both to explore difficult/ frustrating situations and different options for how best to deal with them.

Being young is about learning social conduct - different kids struggle with different aspects of this. Sorting it out now will be key to a successful school experience, and you sound like someone who will be fully capable of helping your son through this stage. Good luck!