Devastated by news from school

[Sickboy]

Hi all. Another of my all-too infrequent visits.

Eldest son's childminder told me today that he had to spend playtime sitting outside the headmistress' office because - he'd bumped into a little girl and knocked her over... but then kicked her when she was on the ground and bloodied her nose.

He's five and has had one or two issues with playing a little too roughly, but before today I wold have sworn that he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body.

I'm absolutely gutted at how a tall, solid, strong, lively, funny and intelligent boy can lash out like this. He knows it's wrong because he goes to a martial arts class where the first rule is 'Never attack anybody'.

We're seeing his headmistress about it tomorrow and I have a queasy mixture of dread, embarrassment and anger.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

On a lighter note, my youngest - Josh - is fourteen months and absolutely glorious.

Sigh.

Hi, Problems in school too
I have a 4 1/2 year old boy who has had problems in pre-school during free play, things like punching and pushing.
I just wanted to write and let you know that I am in a similar situation too and it might be good to give each other feedback on different strategies.
My son is a very co operative child out of school and I have never witnessed him being consistently hurtful towards anyone and it has been a shock to find out that he was attacking other children during free play in pre-school.
He has started reception in a very small primary school in January and he started off fine but last week his teacher complained of him hurting other children and she stated that he had started to be isolated by the other children. I am so scared right now as I have realised that the problem was not only with his pre-school environment as he started the same behaviour in this school as well.
Like some of you I am also against smacking and I try to discipline through love and by explaining right or wrong and I also use time out.

I actually started a star chart and rewarding system for good behaviour last week as this worked temporarily in the past. He has being promised a choice of something special on Fridays if he gets a sticker for each school day of the week. So, this has worked rather well last week and we rented two DVDs for him on Friday.

However, each morning that I drop him off to school I am sick to my stomach with worry that something terrible is going to happen

It will be nice to see your thoughts as I feel so hopeless.

cherrypop - sorry to hear about your situation. I know that feeling of being apprehensive at the school drop-off...

Latest here is that he's had an up-and-downy week or two, but things seem to be starting to look a little brighter.

The sticker chart system is kind of partially successful, but at least it's something for him to focus on.

My main fear is that he loses his spirit somewhere in all of this. He has a playground 'buddy' who shadows him and makes sure his play is appropriate, but the idea that he has to have his hand held - to be shackled - if he gets too exuberant just gives me the shivers.

I took him to football practice last week - at a local session run by an FA-approved coach and he really enjoyed it. Someone made the point about him channeling his energy and I'm hoping this will be a lasting routine for him to do that.

The martial arts thing is down to me. I'm quite advanced in a couple of forms and I've been doing it since I was 17 (36, now). There's a lot of prejudice about martial arts but for most people it's all about building confidence, solidarity, self control, fitness... His instructor is fantastic and really just encourages his age-group to follow set-pieces and is constantly reinforcing the main points of not attacking others, eating properly, going to bed on time, etc. Maybe he is a little young, but I really do feel that he'll mature into it and will gain a lot of self respect and forge some lasting friendships. I also think that non-family male mentors are very important at his age.

I feel good about it all, this weekend. It hasn't been a perfect week, but I sense he's starting to understand what's expected and is trying.

Gonna take him to football tomorrow, go for a McDonald's treat (very rare) and cosy up with a movie in the afternoon. Lots of quality daddy-time.

More soon.

Well, I have a ds same age and we've been through a lot, so this is what comes to mind:

• Teasing: maybe some of the older kids are teasing him to get a reaction out of him? Words often hurt more than a punch, and a 5 year old boy often wouldn't know how to respond. Older, more verbally skilled kids can easily wind him up. And then he lashes out...
• Jelousy issues. With siblings. Don't know your situation, but my ds, who's always been rough but never violent, became violent around the time I had a new baby. Now, 10 months later, he's much better but still not completely over the fact that his baby sister gets more attention. I expect things will get worse when she starts walking and messing up his toys.

Channelling the energy is always a good idea imo.

apparently at 5 boys are at their most aggressive - so be consistent and such incidents will fade over time.

Thanks for the update Sickboy. It sounds like things are beginning to move in the right direction. Hope you had a great weekend!

I'm back - with one of my highly irregular updates.

Tom is now 6 and a half and very smart, bright, funny... But his concentration and aggression issues led us to having him assessed by a child psychologist - who, last week, diagnosed him with ADHD.

I'm extremely cynical about the whole concept (not defence mechanism, always have been) and don't feel particularly comforted that the 'problem' now has a name.

He does drive us insane at home with repeated requests to focus and do simple things. But don't all children have that? I refuse to acknowledge him as suffering from some kind of 'disorder' and feel that the school should be doing more to develop robust strategies to cope with what I see as behavioural diversity.

Anyone else here experienced something similar?

well, hopefully the diagnosis will force the school into coming up with strategies to help him manage his behaviour. I know you don't approve of the label, but the SN threads here are full of very helpful people with bags of experience, may be worth posting there.

i am in a similar boat with my 6 yr old dd.
i've had a very bad weekend with her.
i will go to school tomorrow and take their advice again.
we are recently starting with cam.
she hasn't been diagnosed with anything yet, but i am expecting something will come out.
i have thought about my parenting skills and everything. the only thing that i maybe doing wrong is she is pushing hard to move me away with her unacceptable behaviours, which are breaking my heart very much, and after that i cant find the will to go and cuddle her. it takes time my sad feelings to go away.
my fear is; she is 6 now, upsetting me so much at this age, what will happen when she will be 12 etc years old?
sorry if i am hijacking, just wanted to share my similar problems.

Very, very occasional update, then...

It's ADHD. Apparently. And after sixteen-odd months of increasingly distressing impulsive incidents and classroom disruption, we're starting him (now 7) on a course of Ritalin - well, a Ritalin derivative. Mild to start with, stronger if there's no change.

There's a part of me that feels this is a drastic measure that's been forced by the school's failure to accommodate the darker side of his behaviour. Otherwise, he's smart, funny, likeable, working through school-books intended for children two years older... But, no matter how intense the reasoning and pleading, he sometimes seems incapable of bridging the gap between thought and action - certainly between action and consequence.

The biggest part of the problem is in the playground, where, although he seems to have formed a few decent matey-type friendships (with both boys and girls) he's picking up a reputation as The Bad Boy. I'm worried that's going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy soon, particularly when the only solution the school seems able to offer is 'Calm & Quiet' sessions at playtime. That is, keeping him inside.

So, yeah. I know every case is different and he's by no means a horror-child. But with all our energies diverted to him and his issues - not to mention keeping some love and care aside for our other 3-year-old son - the fault-lines are definitely starting to open, domestically. My wife and I have always been close - similar tastes, great friends, enthusiastic lovers - but I don't think I've ever had less /fun/ in my life.

Sorry I'm not a more active member of this forum - the name /is/ kind of gender-exclusive ;) - but being able to drop in occasionally and vent a little helps a lot.

Thanks all.

HI Sickboy (is that from trainspotting, then?)
Have you thought about home-ed? Only because that's how a lot of people get to deciding to home-ed, because of the types of issues you've discussed, where your square-peg child won't fit into the school's round holes.
If you make a big effort to give him other social outlets (out of school activities) he won't miss out socially, but you & him might be happier.

Staying in for lunch isn't all bad. Sometimes DS asks if he could do that, just draw or read quietly and not put up with the playground politics of his social network.

Hi Sickboy (and welcome again). Hope things get easier soon

My ds is 11 and profoundly deaf, he has anger and behavioural problems, i can sympathise with what you are writing about, we are going to try him on ritalin to see if it makes any difference. Several people have said to me are you sure its wise to try ritalin? My way of looking at it is that the doctors teachers etc then cant say that I havent tried everything!

New here Sickboy, so it's the first time I've heard about you son.

He sounds very like my nephew who at 11 was eventually disgnosed with ADHD & Aspergers syndrome. He's a very bright boy, very easily influenced, & very quick to react in whatever way he sees as appropriate - without taking the time to think things through.

It made it very hard through primary school with him having the repuation, and as he got older, having other children take advantage of his volatility.

Try to think of having the diagnosis as more of a tool than a life sentence - even though it doesn't feel like that right now. You're trying medication right now, he doesn't have to stay in it for ever & it must be reviewed.

But having that diagnosis means the school have a legal obligation to meet his individual needs. I'd book an appt to see the school's SENCo & ask how they are going to meet his needs. YOur expectaion for ths school should be for them to find out what help they can get to make good provsion for him - & soem of that might be changing school policies on things.

Forgot to say, also sounds very much like my younger son (5 at end of March) who is getting a repuation at school for roughness and impulsivity.

Sickboy, I've not 'chatted' to you on any of your other threads, because this is the only time I've seen your posts.

I understand the shock and upset of a formal diagnosis, for us it was dyspraxia rather than ADHD. I have also seen this from the 'other side', because I teach in a secondary school. To a degree I can also understand your feelings at 'putting a name' to your sons difficulties.

I look at my son and i don't see a diagnosis , I see my son who is a mix of dh and me!

As a teacher I hope that I can give you some positive stories. Your son has a diagnosis. A very wise poster on MN (Jimjams) used to say that a diagnosis was a signpost to help get your child the help that they need to cope with the problems. Of itself, the name ADHD will not 'do' anything. But if you get the help that he needs (and be prepared for a fight) your son will improve.

A few years ago I taught a lad who could have been your son. He is now a very fine young man, who is studying at one of the top end universities. He was funny, lively (in a good way) and damn clever. He also had ADHD. But like your son he was blessed with parents who wanted the best for him. His mother was formidable, magnificent, and the greatest gift that kid ever had.

THis is an awful thing to deal with, you have all my sympathy. I've seen these kids rise above their problems. With your help, I'm sure your son will too.

Re the problems this is causing for you as a family, sadly all too common. The only advice I can give if for you and your wife to make regular dates to go to the pub alone. And even if it means you come back to some trashed rooms, or a stressed out baby sitter, pay her double, and clear the mess. You both need time to be the people you were Before Kids

Sickboy - this is the first time I have come across your posts. I have been involved with a children's group for more than ten years and we have seen similar problems develop and be resolved. I realize you are now trying a Ritalin derivitive but sometime in the future it might be worth keeping a food diary. We had one case where a child was on the verge of permanent expulsion (having been through all the exclusion phases etc.) due to violence on other children, losing temper with teachers in the classroom, disruptive behaviour, etc. His mother was regularly phoned to take him home during the day. The food diary revealed that the worst days were when he had Weetabix for breakfast - which is against what all instincts about slow release carbohydrates would suggest! All wheat was removed from his diet and all the anger and aggression was resolved - he reverted to what was considered "normal" levels of anger in a boy of his age. With another child removing milk produced the same result. I am not suggesting this is your son's problem - I only offer it as something which helped other parents in similar distressing circumstances and which might be worth a look at some stage.

FT re wheetabix, the authors of a GI diet, which looks at the release rates of glucose from complex carbs said to avoid Wheatabix as it was sufficiently 'processed' so as to speed up release. They promoted Muesli and porridge for breakfasts, along with scrambled eggs on toast, and grilled bacon!

Could you investigate the possibility of a different school? Maybe even private? Just thinking that if it's anything like my son's primary, the boys don't get a decent chance to work out their excess energy/aggression at playtime in a controlled way and your posts could have been written by any number of parents of boys at our school.

Sickboy - just to say that there are loads of dads on this site - the title might be gender specific, but the ethos is inclusive - honest

Hi sickboy,

I've just read this thread all the way through.

I hear your concerns about him being seen as the "bad boy" at school. This a pretty extreme suggestion, but if you really feel that he carries this label, in spite of any interventions the school has put in place, would you consider moving him to another school which has a more enlightened attitude to ADHD?

Friends of mine adopted two boys who, due to their early background, found school extremely difficult, both socially and academically. Over a couple of years, both boys made good progress, but somehow never seemed to shake off their early labels because staff and peers were always expecting to see, and therefore looking for agressive behaviour. I suspect this meant that every small thing they did was noticed, whereas other children doing the same things would not have been noticed.

They made the very hard decision to move schools so that the boys could have a fresh start from their "improved" standpoint. It has made all the difference in the world. Both boys have thrived, formed friendships and made greater progress academically. Expectations by their teachers and peers were the same as for any other pupil and no one was looking out for inappropriate behaviour. Instead, they were expecting appropriate behaviour which they generally got.

I totally agree with the previous suggestion about booking babysitters and forcing yourselves to make time for each other, no matter what the mayhem you return to.

There is also a scheme which runs in some areas called "neighbourhood care" which provides childminder respite to families. Have you tried posting on the Special Needs section of this board to see what respite families manage to access?

Sorry - that was a huge post!

Sounds like normal 5yr old behaviour to me and he certainly won't be the first little boy who has been a little rough and gone too far and i am sure he regretted as soon as it had happened. Children learn by the mistakes they make, as we do, it's a learning curve when you become parents it's the same for children. All children are going to have off days, my 9yr old used to be very rough and got into trouble at school when he was 5 not really being naughty (the occasional incident) more just not knowing when to stop and having so much energy, was very bouncy. Since he has had a little brother a
nd sister he is so gentle with them and adores his sister, i think he now realises that you need to be much more careful with younger children and i don't really have any problems any more. Just make it clear that the behaviour isn't acceptable and that he must say sorry to the little girl, accidents do happen!!

BITCAT - I think you need to read the whole thread - it was initially started in 2006 I think! Sickboy has updated but infrequently.

Wow. Some terrific advice - all hugely appreciated.

Cliche, I know, but it's fortifying just to know that I'm not isolated. (Good to know there are a few other dads lurking around here, too).

Dashing about a bit today, but I promise to bounce back in later and respond.

Thanks again.

@flack: not Trainspotting at all. School nickname. Long - funny - story that I might risk boring you with sometime.

Deffo other Dads posting.

You might want to slide over to the Special needs bits of the board, whete you will find lots of extertise in dealing with all sorts of SN issues.

You will also find a fine groups of people whwr you can 'offload' to people who have 'Been there , done that, got the teeshirt!'

All of MN is great, for specialist help, the SN parts are even better