Help, I need help, sleep deprivation and night weaning

[SharkSkinThing]

I really need some advice about this. I've asked HV, NCT Milk group and random women in the street, but I'm seriously beginning to go bonkers with lack of sleep, and don't know what to do.

DS is 7 months old (EBF) and is waking at least three times a night to feed - but he is eating masses and masses in the day - one large jar of food, plus snacks, plus what seems to be a lake full of yogurt, plus bf.

I feel like I should be discouraging him from feeding at night because I genuinely don't think he needs it - when he wakes at 10.30pm DP goes to settle him but he screams and screams until I go and feed. He'll then wake again at 1.30 and again at 3am, before waking up for good, at around 5am.

I just need some straight advice. Should I totally close the door on bf at night - am I actually stopping him for having a good night's sleep?

Should I get DP to offer formula at 10.30pm until he takes it, even if it means him screaming for a few days? What do I do the rest of the night? Offer boob?

I never thought I'd day this, but I currently hate bf, and just want done with it.

Should I just accept that my baby is not a great sleeper and will get there in his won time?

Sorry for long post, I'm feeling very low and alone and totally unsupported by those who could help!!

I'll be watching this with interest, I'm having the exact same problem - DS is now 10 months and I'm desperately tired.

I go back to work soon too which is a worry, I just won't be able to function on this little sleep.

I also worry that his waking for bf every 2-3 hrs at night might be harming his development in some way.

Will watch with interest

Only you can decide. Personally I think it's entirely possible he still needs night feeds at that age and in your shoes my decision would be between BF or formula but not nothing. At that stage with DS I was working so he took most of his milk at night. I just took him into my bed after he woke, so I could get a bit more sleep. I think it's invariably easier to accept babies than it is to try to change them. It will pass, but it is brutal at the time. :(

oh my god, me too! she currently has:
7am milk
10am breaskfast
1pm - formula
2pm - lunch (two course)
4pm - milk
7pm - milk
10/11 - formula
2am and 5am - milk
Driving me insane! Actually, clinically insane. We are trying to give formula at the evening feeds as I think my milk production was a bit low. she is sleeping a bit better and for longer since we started the formula, but still waking twice a night and she is also def hungry.

I can't co sleep as we are both too noisy and wake each other up.

Will post more as we continue to try and get a magical 6 hours sleep!

I think you've done really well to EBF for as long as you have! I wouldn't hesitate to introduce bedtime bottle of formula - if its doesn't work it doesn't work - you've got nothing to lose!

He may well still need to feed during the night at 7mo but at least DP will be able to help if you have bottles at night....

Thank you everyone - some mornings I wake up and feel physically and mentally disappointed that yet another night has been like this, and here goes another day, 14 hours of trying to hold it together and hope for some signs that tonight will be the night he cracks it.

DP and I have asked ourselves over and over what could be wrong, what are we doing wrong to prevent him sleeping, and we can think of nothing. He goes down in his cot for naps, he naps fine in his pushchair and the car, he can self-settle, we don;t run in every time he cries, I never feed to nap him anymore...he just can't seem to clock up more than 4 hours sleep in a row.

Haggis - that's interesting about the formula, we're going to try it tomorrow. Did you offer that and no boob at that time until she took it? I also feel bananas with it all as well. I mean, if he doesn't take the formula, do I step in with the boob, or leave it? If he doesn't want to ff, then he'll have to lump it?

istheresomething - I have had the same concern - how much of a block of sleep do babies need anyway, in order to develop properly?

To top it all (thanks, Mother Nature), he has eczema - mild, but he has it. Lord knows how - neither I nor DP suffer from it or have any allergies, and DS has a super healthy diet, cotton clothes etc etc etc. and now I'm worried that formula may aggravate it.

Some days, and I'm sorry to say this, I just want my old life back, or at least to be able to pause it all for a day.

Sea - yes, DP could then feed at 11ish and I could just sleep for more than 2.5 hours in a row...

hum have you though that maybe he's taking to much solids during the day and not enough milk. We certanly didn't give snaks till DD was 12months and on 3 meals a day. Anything inbetween meals was BM till that point. just a thought.

But DD didn't sleep throught untill 13months so I'm no expert, but I still felt she was hungery when she woke up. It is a big ask to expect a 7 month old baby who is still growing so fast to go so long at night without anything. Some babies do it but not most.

Thanks, Mig - he's on 4 to 5 BF in the day and then 2 - 3 BF at night. Do you think that's not enough? He also has a double bf before bed!

The thing is, he wasn't a great sleeper before solids, I had just hoped that with so much food in him it would be getting easier. I agree it's a big ask - I guess I'm just hoping to find some solace in the fact it's not just me, because I swear to god, every single mum I meet has a baby who sleeps through. Are they all making it up??!!

From what I understand, nutritionally the baby does not need to be fed through the night anymore if they are having that much milk and food during the day. I found with my baby that she was waking in the night because of habit rather than hunger, apparently if they wake at exactly the same time then it is most likely to be habit. Also we knew she wasn't hungry because we gave her a big 10.30 formula feed and then she would bfeed in the night and wouldn't be hungry in the morning and so would only have a short feed.

What we did was to stop feeding her in the night. We were happy to do controlled crying. But you could also try giving water and then they might lose interest in waking up, altho' this didn't work for us.

Then with the big 10.30 feed we gradually reduced it over a period of a month so eventually she was only getting a couple of ounces, we then cut it altogether.

If you are unhappy with bfeeding maybe you should give it up and then at least with formula you will definitely know how much they are getting during the day and be happier to not feed them at night??

Really hope things improve for you soon...

Thanks, ohmydays - I can understand that he is no doubt waking for exactly that reason. Only a little voice in my head tells me that he could be hungry. I just don't think I'm a very confident mum.

We're weaning him off bf for good at 9 months - I think that throwing in a ff at 11ish is no bad thing, and then do what you did, and gradually reduce it.

I try the water, sometimes it works, sometimes no dice.

They will improve...I'm sure of it...once I can start leaving sandwiches in his cot!

Ha! at the sandwiches in the cot! I have actually thought the same about DS- I think he might need a snack in the night until he's about 30!!

I reckon you should throw in some ff in the night purely so you can share the getting up with DP.

My 6mo DS is mahoosive (off the chart thing for his height) and I think he still is genuinely hungry for his 10.30pm and middle of the night feed because he's just been growing so quickly. I too would be utterly bonkers from lack of sleep if I couldn't share the feeds with DH.

I think you need to stop the night feeding. I have 2 DDs now 3.5 and 4.5. They were both exclusively breastfed and I stopped night feeds around 2 months, and then stopped waking to feed at 10/11pm before 3 months. In my opinion most babies do not need feeding in the night at 7 months. I would stop now before it is more of a problem.
The latest is that breastfed babies need more food sooner than formula, and this was certainly true for my DDs, even when the guideline was 6 months, I started weaning at 4/4.5 months. By 7 months they would be eating 3 good homemade meals a day, jars tend to be low in calories etc that may mean he is actually hungry?!
Does he sleep a lot in the day?

Thankyou for this I thought I was the only one! DD is 7 months old and is EBF she eats ok during the day and drinks water - as I thought she might be waking cos she was thirsty. She wakes up at varying times during the night - sometimes once, but usually every 2-3 hours nad it is killing me as I am now back at work. She was a bottle refuser but has just started taking them at nursery but has a cows milk protein allergy. I was thining about trying to give bottles of formula during the night as not sure if she is just waking for a cuddle rather than a drink - but if I don't feed her she won't settle so must be a bit hungry.
I hope someone has the magic answer!

DS was still feeding about 3 x a night like that when I went back to work at 13mo.

It was hideous. I didn't manage to get him to stop night feeds til about 18/20mo.

But DD was FF at 7m and she didn't sleep through until gone 12m either.

DS is 2.2, recently weaned from BF altogether but still doesn't sleep through

evolucy, please could you elaborate on your statement that "the latest is that breastfed babies need more sooner ...". I haven't seen that research.

Possibly referring to the breast is not best tripe that came out recently. I honestly just think it is luck of the draw with sleeping. it's all very well saying just stop feeding them, but if they are genuinely hungry, they are not going to stop feeling that just because you don't feed them - mine just gets more and more upset. If she has woken through habit, she will self settle after about ten minutes. If she's hungry, she won't settle and will just cry for two/three hours.

We have been feeding her up with food in the day (and milk feeds) and then giving formula at 10/11pm - this seems to be working a bit better, so she only wakes up once at about 2 or 3am - one magic night recently she went from 11:30 - 7:30am!!

It is making work very difficult, though, as I am absolutely shattered a lot of the time.

She is also waking up because she has rolled onto her front and can't roll back again!

EBD - my DS is also off the charts - he's a great weight and is incredibly long - Dad is 6ft 7", so I think there really is a god chance that he wants the food, I really do!

Last night he slept from 7.30 - 11, and then woke at 2, and fed, and he fell asleep from about 2.30am to 6am. I do think we're getting there.

Haggis - he's also moving around quite a lot in the cot, I guess new mobility is all rather exciting for them, even if their choice of practice time is horrendous! DS also does the same mutinous screaming if hungry - I can often hear him settling, so I know he can do it!!

Evo - not quite sure where you're coming from, have not heard about the breast/food debate?? as far as I know food is fun until they're one, and milk is their number one source of nutrition and calories? Not that DS isn't eating, as I said - and he's on a mix of home made and jars, all healthy, all organic. He sleeps well in the day - he's on two naps now, one in the morning of around 30 - 45 mins, one of about the same in the afternoon. If he wakes very early (5am), then he'll have three naps in the day.

Moaning, Emmy - I'm with you all the way, it really is hideous. I don't think there's a magic answer. This thread has made me realise it's just a slow and gradual progression towards improvement..some time when our children are in their 40's, I hope.

We're going to try a bottle of formula tonight, I will let you know what happens - I expect he will fling it across the room. But that's DP's problem!

If your baby is feeding well in the day ( although looks like no solids for evening meal?) and is in a good routine with regards to naps- i would say that he is waking from habit and heck- while he has you, he will have a good old glug! If you were to wake up at 3 in the morning for a few weeks and have a big old feast- then it is likley that your body clock would kick in and soon you will be waking early hours with a grumbling belly!!! Your baby is used to waking and feeding at theses times, and while some babies fall into a more socially acceptable pattern, some dont and need you to 'Tweak' thier body clocks!

How does he get to sleep by the way- at naps and bedtime is he BF to sleep? if he is BF/Rocked or otherwise comforted by you to sleep- this will also have a big impact on the reasons for fully waking in the night and needing you for comfort to get back off to sleep.

If you are not comfortable with CC then I would suggest giving him solids at 5pm ish milk at bedtime and then when he first wakes, wait an extra 5 mins before you feed and when you feed, knock off 5 minutes time at breast. after doing this for 3 days, increase the wait before you go in to feed and reduce time at breast by 10 mins for another 3 days and keep going until you are literally feeding him for 1 minute and then all subsequent nights, offer expressed milk from bottle of reduced proportions (to elimintate the waking for a comfy boob option)until he is just having an ounce and from then on offer water.

My DS, now 3.5 years, woke 3 or 4 times a night up until 15 months and was genuinely hungry. I was back at work too, and just glad the zombie state is behind me (you will survive i swear!). So obviously i could not feed in the day and i think i guiltily felt i owed him the night feeds...but he really could eat too and i couldn't just say no go back to sleep, only a feed would do it. Re the 'sleeping through' comments, my DS was such a challenge to my beauty sleep, my DD (5 months) wakes at 2ish and 5 ish and would wake at 10/11 if she could be bothered to go to sleep in the first place, but she's so easy and back to sleep so quickly, i may have said she 'sleeps through, even though that's technically more than three wake ups. And I'm not doing anything different. 7 months is really little, yours will get there and you REALLY are not doing anything wrong.

just realised how pointless it was to say i'm not doing anything different when my 2 clearly have the same pattern! But their natures are different and i barely notice it with DD - also she's still in our room, i guiess i will notice it more when she moves to other room. Could you move yours back in with you for a bit if its killing you?

Container - he is having solids at 5pm - I am actually a bit worried about how much he is eating (is that possible?!). Seriously, he eats soooo much solids. Yesterday he only had 3 bf in the day, then went down at 7.30pm, woke and fed at 12, again at 2.30am (and I think I could have skipped this one, if I'd been more on the ball), then slept until 5.30am.

He is not rocked or bf to sleep - he always goes down half awake, and his day time naps took a lot of work, but he now goes down in his cot with no more than a cuddle, a dummy and a quiet lullaby. He only sleeps for about 30 - 45mins, but I'm happy that he's in his own bed. On the bedtime feed I feed downstairs whilst Dad reads a story and then he carries him up, so he's semi-awake.

I tend to think that if it's 4 hours + since he last fed, I'll feed him in the night.

Lady - thank you, I did think about moving him back, but I think that may make me worse! I even have the monitor off now as I listen to every little breath - he's only next door so I always hear him. I guess there is no 'wrong' or 'right' answer, just no sign of any sleep yet!

How was everyone else's night?

My now 21 month old DD was up every 1-3 hours for months - between 5 months to 9 months or thereabouts. To be frank it is all a blur. She would scream hysterically if my husband tried to settle her so it was always me. She was also one of those babies that woke up screaming as opposed to grumbling, so I couldn't really ignore her.

She was hungry in the night and definitely needed food, though perhaps not every time she woke. She was a big baby up until 10-11 months or so. Thankfully she would drift back to sleep right away after having a feed.

But don't worry about frequent wakings in the night and a negative impact on brain development. I used to panic over it (my baby barely napped in the day either) but I've gotten over my concerns now. She's talking up a storm and her nursery are constantly banging on about how clever she is.

I just had to accept that I really lucked out and got a shite sleeper. Last night was a really good night with one waking in the night. She slept 8pm - 5am and then came into bed with me and slept till 6:30am. Some day she'll slept through consistently; I hope it is soon.

I was not referring to anything like breast is not best! I believe that it is!
It has been in the press recently that some now think that exclusively breastfed babies need solids sooner than 6 months. That perhaps 6 months may be fine for formula fed but not for breastfed. And I have to say that in my experience, (yes so only 2 children) I weaned DD1 at 4.5months after a dramatic weight loss from 14 weeks, and then DD2 straightaway at 16 weeks when her weight started to do the same (despite the 6 months recommendation) as they were exclusively breastfed and they were clearly not getting enough to eat.
That is why I have said to OP an EBF baby may be needing more solid food at 7 months than a formula fed baby.

Shark...I have never thought that milk is the main source of nutrition until they are one?! At 7 months I think 3 bfs a day is the right amount along with 3 meals.

Any references, evo? It seems much of what you say is based on some unspecified news story and the rest is opinion. Milk is the main and best source of nutrition in the first year. If you want references for that I think we can probably find one or two.

It was in the press about a month ago, have a search for it.
I agree that milk is very important for the first year, however increasingly over the year solids become more and more important, I disagree that later in the first year milk is still the main and best source of nutrition. It may be for a baby that is not fed enough of the right foods, but not if they are. I am sure I could find many references to this effect. Perhaps you are confusing what I am saying, yes milk is very important but more so by the end of the year is a very good solid diet.