help - on verge of giving up career after this week.....

[heyelp]

Long story. Will summarise!

I am mum of 2 DCs - DS age 4 (just) and DD age 2 (3 in April). Have been working for big multinational for 15 years - straight from University and have a big career. Am main breadwinner etc. After having DS I really didn't want to go back but went back for 6 months in stress free role and had DD very quickly. That was the plan. Then I had to go back for 6 months after DD to get my maternity pay - get 9 months full pay on condition of going back for 6 months after that. Couldn't afford not to do it.

Full intention of then giving up and moving abroad in my DH's homeland (my DH is from abroad in continental Europe). We spent years planning it. Bought a wreck. Rennovated it etc. Took 6 years. Had it all planned. Went back to work for this 6 months (that got extended to 14 months - which suited us more financially as well) but then I got cold feet about going. Loads of reasons. Didn't feel DH was sorting out the rennovation quickly enough, because the part of the house we were to live in wasn't finished I was nervous about cutting my job etc - remember I had worked all my life and rennovations can come in about double planned (the part we were to live in was the barn and the main house had already been finished - we rent that part out for income). We thought we could scrape by. But then 2 things happened. I really started to enjoy working again. PLUS a new amazing job came up BASED in his homecountry - we could live in the amazing capital city on an expat allowance and it is a dream job for somebody in my profession.

We decided that I would apply and let fate decide. I got the role. Same company etc as I had worked in. Basically we moved in May 2010 - we love living here, the perks are great. My DH looked after both DCs for 6 months to get them settled and he didn't work. Although he was miserable in that role - seeing me in my new role and loving it and him not being suited to stay at home etc. He got a job and started to work in Nov 2010. He loves it and I love it that he is working again as his confidence is a lot higher. He doesn't earn as much but that is not the issue. The fact is he is working and is a lot happier which also makes me happy.

So all sounds great right? But then I always have this nagging doubt about the DCs in the back of my mind. They go to nursery 5 days a week from 8.30am until 3pm. I drop them off and a nanny picks them up. I get home about 7pm. Play for a bit and put them to bed. My job is draining and hard work. I travel a bit - long haul - about once every 2-3 months - will be gone about 3-4 days for that. But the travel is not the issue - it is more the day to day not seeing them and KNOWING them.

Went away this week on hols with mum, DH, sister, sister's DH and her baby - DD age 1. My kids were not great with my niece. She is so sociable and lovely. She tried to join in. My two are very close and just didn't let her play with them. They were quite mean. I was shocked and embarrassed. I disciplined them quietly in private. But it carried on - they weren't aggressive - they just kept saying "no" and "go away" all the time and just said they wanted to play with each other.

My mum was a SAHM and has always thought I should not work as much. My sister works 3 days a week but lives near my mum and is a homebody - I have always been the thrill seeker in the family. Their faces will always remain with me. They looked at me in disgust at my kids behaviour - they don't see them THAT often because we are living abroad.

I don't know what to do. Serious dilemma. Did I make the wrong decision 1 year ago. Should I have not taken the job and stuck to original plan of jacking it all in. I cannot do my job on anything less than full on. It is relentless. I would really have to give up. I don't want to do another role in the same company. I would prefer to retrain and do something entirely different. All made worse because DH is now settling into his new role - but even he says we would really struggle to live where we are on his salary.

ahhhh - don't know what to do. Pls give me some perspective.

Um, I doubt your kids being nasty to your niece has anything to do with you working. In fact, being in nursery should have taught them to be more sociable and they would probably be even worse if you'd stayed home with them!

Don't feel guilty about working if you love it! If the women in your family don't work, that's their own business. Your decisions are not their concern, any more than their decisions are yours.

You need to separate the issues here. If your children are behaving in a way that you don't like, work on the problem. If they're very close to each other, that's wonderful when they're alone together but you will need to work on teaching them to include others.

But it's irrelevant to your position as a WOHM, really.

Why should you give up a job you love because you got hairy eyeballs from your mum and sister? Seriously?

Just a quick one as I'm off out, but from experience babies of 1yr are a) always supercute and generally well behaved as they haven't really hit the 'MEEE-ness' of toddlerhood and b) dull for bigger kids of 3 and 4yrs to play with.

My boys, 4 last week and 5yrs can be gorgeous and can be mean little buggers depending on their mood and I was a SAHM until the eldest started school so it wasn't because they didn't see me. I now work 3 long days per week, I leave before they wake in the mornings and the au pair takes them to school and nursery, she then collects them at at 3.30pm and I see them for about 1/2hr when I get home at 7pm. I am much happier and fulfilled and I enjoyed the time I spend with them rather than seeing being stuck at home as a chore.

They are still mean and embarassing sometimes and I have to apologise to friends as their behaviour isn't as I would hope it to be, and sometimes they are beautifully behaved and my friends kids are being vile.

So...... don't worry about what your mum/sister think if you/DH are happy and you are are confident that your childcare is good and the kids are well cared for then it's all fine. Your sister will realise in a couple of years when her DD gets a mind of her own that it doesn't always have pleasing consequences.

PS: Lovely that your children WANT to play together rather than bite lumps out of one another!

A really difficult one. Firstly, are you really sure you can´t do your job part time - even working 80%? Sometimes I think people underestimate the possibilities that would be available to them if they really fought for them. But to really fight, they have to REALLY want it - and be willing to accept big disadvantages in their career.
I think you just have to do some long hard soul searching about what you really want from life. It is a horrible myth that you can have everything. You have to take hard choices and as a woman it is even harder because I think it has been a habit of men over centuries not to know their children and live for their job, but for women it´s a new phenomenon.
Try to ignore your mum and sister. They are irrelevant here. The point is that you feel that you don´t see your kids much.
Sorry, not to be much help. It is really a matter of what you want from your life most and then you have to accept that whichever choice you make, you do really give up a lot. On the other hand, if you choose to retrain, you could well end up having a bit of both ... time now with your kids and then a fulfilling job - even if a different one - down the line. But you have to try to think carefully about what you would retrain in, whether you would be happy with that etc. etc..

You're having some qualms about leaving your DC during your working week.

You're perhaps not enjoying the life as much as you thought?

Is tere ANY way you could take 2 weeks off to be at home and see if you felt the same way?

Maybe if you tried it then your views would be clearer?

It sounds really clear from your post that you really love your job and it brings you a great deal of fulfilment. You are obviously having a moment of feeling guilty right now because of what happened on your holiday. But that is one incident. Ask yourself if that holiday hadn't happened, or if your kids had been little darlings and played with your niece all the time, would you still feel like this? I suspect the answer is no. As previous posters have said, you can't make such a huge decision as to give up a career you love and are obviously very good at just to please your mum and sister.

I understand your concerns about not spending huge amounts of time with your kids, but that is a separate thing. Apart from their behaviour on holiday, you haven't said anything negative about your kids. Is this the only thing that gives you concerns? If so, I think it is really minor.

Being at home with your kids is great for some people but not for everyone. I am a SAHM (partly through choice, partly circumstance) after giving up a high-flying, professional career when my DS was born. Some days I wish I was in the office with a cup of coffee, believe me! Most days I am happy to be at home. I gave it a lot of thought and the point is, being at home works FOR ME. Everyone is different. Put it like this - are you happy at work? Are you happy at home (apart from this little niggle)? Is your husband happy? Are your kids happy? If so, then don't make any changes just to please other people. If you are happy and fulfilled and successful at work, isn't that a wonderful example to set your daughters? Giving up work to stay at home because of guilt or other people's negative feelings is NOT a good reason - you should only do it if YOU positively want to.

By the way, when I was deciding whether or not to go back to work I read a book called 10-10-10 by Suzy Welch - it's about making important decisions and although it's a bit north american/Oprah-ish it's really worth a read.

Hi, just a quick answer - my daughter was in full time nursery from age 5 months, up to 3 months before her 3rd birthday. She is extremely sociable and a lovely little girl - so i doubt leaving your kids in nursery made them like that. You can always ask the nursery how they are getting on, and how they get on with other children. I dont think it has anything with you working. Children develop their own personalities and go through phases, so dont worry about it.

Second thing - when the time comes for you to leave your job - you will know. I made the decision whilst I was at work within 5 minutes, and went and told my boss. It was my first job after graduating and I had worked my way up to an excellent role. Just hang in there - you'll know when its time to stop.

I have to disagree that the OP "will know" when to leave her job....it's not that clear cut fr many people.

I have a very hard timemaking choices...the OP might do to.

WIth me, I balance up the pro's and con's over and over and cannot find an answer...I often have to think things over for a year before I get there.

Ahhh ladies. Thank you. I am so confused today and your words really are helping.

Yes I DO love my job. As a lot of you have realised. I have worked hard and am very lucky to be naturally good at it. It is a wonderful role and was always taken by men in the past and they were really wanting a woman to do it as the area of business I work on needs a woman's perspective. There are some days it gets me down, sometimes because my boss is occasionally a bully, sometimes because I really do get drawn in and work obsessively (my own personaly issue).

bcmummy said that it sounds like it is only this week that has made you feel like this. Yes that is true. I also had a week with my mum at Xmas and because DS and DD were there alone (my 2 sisters live nearby so have no need to stay with my mum) there were no issues with them. Indeed my OLDER sister had her 2 DSs there - age 5 and 7 - and they played fine.

Yes, the nice thing snailwhaletail is that my DS and DD are very close and look after each other, maybe because we have moved country and they now share a bedroom and are together at the same nursery etc. They certainly have their moments but are protective of each other. But this closeness just made this week seem worse. And yes, my little niece is gorgeous and cute and wanted to play - but that almost made things WORSE because my kids just batted her out of the way everytime. DS said he would "play with her when she was 2 - at the moment she cannot talk and always has a wet mouth". Things like that. Of course my sister and her DH hated it and kept cajoling DS and DD into being nice and telling them that it was not nice to be like that etc.

Then on Thursday night, after nearly a week of it, it came to a head. I was very ill with sore throat and fever, DH had had to go back to work as he has only just started his new job and couldn't take the full week off, and I was alone with them. DS had said something mean again to my niece and my sister looked at me and said "can you not SAY something to them" - I said I HAD done - all week - but in private. And she said "well they clearly don't LISTEN to you then". Just burst straight into tears. Rubbish I know. My mum was sitting there and said zero. She has a history of that where I am concerned! Basically she agreed with my sister.

So what with that and other little "digs" all week, I feel like the devil. There was one moment when my sister was reading my DS a story and she said how much he was liking it to my mum and my mum replied "well yes, he likes it when he gets attention". And I just KNOW that is aimed at me. And another when they forget to say please and thankyou and my mum says "don't you KNOW that by now - it is taking you an awful long time to learn". And my DD who is extremely wilful and refuses to be potty trained - and to be honest I am leaving her to do it in her own time - it is not worth the screams....! My mum cannot believe she is so LATE etc etc. The list goes on.

After a week it ground me down and I am really serious about resigning.

DH has said that I should simply not see my family anymore as I always come away upset - oh there is a long history of little troubles.......

So thank you all for your words. It really does help put some perspective on it all.

I came out of this morning thinking I had to send my kids to behavioural specialists. Seriously.

Oh, and as regards to nursery milkyway2007 - DH is now going to set up a meeting to talk to the teachers about his behaviour at nursery. DS is going through a "I only want to play with X" stage because he says that some other boys in his class don't want to play with him. I have no idea how serious that is. DS told me this week when all this was going on and I was "disciplining him" - indeed I was more having a good chat to him - that he did cry by the slide one day because of it. So this whole thing may have unearthed something else that DH and I are going to look into deeper. The teachers haven't said anything but then they are "foreign" and I don't know how that kind of thing works over here.

And to top it all off, on the Thursday after all this cufuffle, my DS wet himself twice that day - which is unheard of for him and once during the night. That really upset me as well cos he was obviously upset with all the fuss.

Phew - off my chest!

Don't worry about your Mum, your sister, go on how you feel about work/home/your kids well-being.

Apart from being a bit mean to your niece (doesn't sound that bad to me, and yes as pp say, age 1 most are delightful, wait until she's a toddler and saying "go away!"), are they generally happy and well-adjusted to the routine? Are you ok with the balance, having considered your options?

I think it's happy Mum=happy kids so work out what works best for you all as a family.

If it's too full on (the job) then there may be a happy medium that you haven't thought of, rather than re-training, there could be some contracting/part-time options in similar field?

PS And although it all sounds as if I really do want to stay in my job - actually I really enjoyed this week with my kids. I LOVE spending time with them. I actually LOVE it that my DH is off on a business trip for a week because I have had them to myself since Wednesday and all this weekend (they are very much into daddy and go to him when we are both together as my DH looked after them for 6 months when we moved here).

We all had a hard day today because it blew up again this morning before leaving and DS and DD could SEE I was upset. But at the end of the day we had a lovely time playing together. I love spending time like this together. The week away made me realise how LITTLE I know them because I am not around. And picking up this issue at nursery with friends is something I would normally miss when working and running around. So that makes me feel guilty as well - that the first I heard of him crying by the slide at nursery was this week.

Ahhhh - this is not an easy decision.

It is nigh on impossible for me to cut down my hours in my current role - I would end up working the same - into the evenings and weekends - for less money - and to get a different role in the small satellite set up out here would be hard.

There are a few options - one of which is to go back to plan A - and go and live in the renovated house which is now finished. But it is in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE and provincial. Would I eat my arm off or be quite happy tending the garden (which I do love by the way)???????

Dear God

I would like 2 lives running side by side

Love Woman with children

ha ha

My own mum doesn't understand me working and having DCs. I think it's a difference in generation, so I would listen more to how yourself feel about working, rather than what my own family thinks.

I don't know...do you have any other interests besides the garden which you could do if you didn't work? Could you manage without your wage?

heyelp, you need to get away from that horrendous week with your mum and sister and regain some perspective.

I think they have issues of their own - they put the boot in when you were down and made you cry and feel like rubbish without even any sympathy or comfort. How judgey and sanctimonious is that? They clearly wanted you to feel as guilty and they felt you should. You have the big career and I suspect they want to cut you down to their size.

I have special words for people like that but will refrain as they are your relatives.

Nothing you have described about your children would raise any concerns with me. My dd 7 and ds 4 play together a lot and are also very protective of each other. But before ds was 18 months, dd did not really play with him though they get on like a house on fire now. I can understand why they would find their year old cousin dull. You have spoken to them about being kinder to their cousin. The message will sink in. My ds 4 can often be quite embarrassing in an anti-social way that 4 year olds just are. I don't see much difference with his friends either. It is the age. Same with your ds only wanting to play with one friend at school.

My ds insists he has no friends at school. But then I saw him at a birthday party today playing with a few. They don't really form firm friendships at this age yet. Don't worry about the social side, it will work out. I doubt it is to do with your work.

If your ds is upset, I would ease off. Your dh and you are a parenting team. If you have more work commitments, then your dh takes some of the slack and flack too. Don't feel it is all on your shoulders. You sound like a committed concerned mother and wonderful at that!

What your Mum and sister said aside...it sounds like an awful lot of sress...as you said, the job is draining and hard work..lot's of travel and then having to do the parenting bit aswell.

I really feel for you. I think you have to seperate your choice fom your guilt though...try to see things as they are and as they would be.

Less money, less social interaction, less satisfaction in a work sense. BUt you would have less stress and physical tiredness...you coulpersue other things ad be with your DC more.

bcmummy: "Giving up work to stay at home because of guilt or other people's negative feelings is NOT a good reason - you should only do it if YOU positively want to."

Totally agree with this. Enjoying a week with your dcs (with an interesting job to go back to) is not the same as the rest of your life with your dcs (with nothing interesting to go back to) - ok, I exaggerate, but you get the gist.

Holidays and hobbies are great, simply because we don't get to do them all the time. If it was routine, they won't be as fun, in fact possibly dull as arse after a while.

Hence, you have got to be clear why you are giving up work, because it sounds like it is easy to get on the off-ramp, but have very few on-ramps. Don't give up in a huff.

It's hard being a woman isn't it.........

I still reckon there's a third way.....between full on working and the rennovation project and gardening. Don't go and live in the middle of nowhere without a job, not if you're not sure if you'd love it..and are used to full on working stimulation etc!! that way lies madness.

Maybe start to scout around for other work, look seriously at other options, you might surprise yourself.. it's very easy to think it's either this or that, but what about the other...sorry bit vague but maybe decide what your priorities are- big career/full time/part time work etc then see what the options are.

Good luck!

Hello Wimpleoftheballet - yes I do have lots of things I could do. Am halfway through an interior design diploma. Started it years ago. It is a distance course and never have had time to finish it.

I could run the house in the summer - the bit that we rent. Currently we pay someone to do it for us but I would quite like pottering around doing that.

Could do a TEFL course and teach English to people over here. Could take up my piano again. Could maybe even get into interior design over here.

There is definitely a creative side of me that wants to break loose.

Hmm - could we then manage with DH wage. We would have to by hook or by crook. I am sure we could if we had to - it would mean seriously cutting back. If DH stayed here in capital city and carried on with his job - which is OK paid - and moved in with a mutual friend he has here and paid him rent. And I moved to the country with the kids and running the rental. And we could see how we went financially - I could always do something minor. But that would mean DH and I being apart. ALTHOUGH as his job gets going he will be travelling about 2 days a week internally anyway (obviously NOT coinciding with my occasional travel currently).

Now blueshoes - you have picked up on something bigger here - because I have started to go into more detail. But I have a massive two sided thought about this. I have grown up with my mum and my 2 sisters (one older and the other younger) being the "nice" one. I am the "horrid selfish" one. They would never admit that but they are the roles we all have in our family. My 2 sisters live near home. Work in part time jobs and my mum has helped them out with their childcare - to quite a big extent.

Now don't get me wrong. My mum and my sisters ARE nice. Everyone around them LOVES them. And this has always made me feel that that opinion is correct and I am selfish nasty cow. However the older I am getting (and also with DH now seeing it play out and offering outside view) the more I am getting pee'ed off with it all. As you say I WAS down on Thursday. The place we were all on holiday was actually the house we had renovated. My DH and I invited them all to stay there for free. Wouldn't even DREAM of asking them for a penny. We are currently in a fortunate enough position - BECAUSE of my job - to be able to do that. And I love it.

However, it does mean a bit more stress for me cos I have to get it all sorted etc etc. But no worries. Then my mum was ill at beginning of the week - not so bad - but a bit ill. And kept jumping up and down saying how COLD the house was - when in fact we had the heating on FULL BLAST - 22 degrees PLUS a large wood burning stove. Energy is not cheap out here so god ONLY knows how much this week has cost me and DH - but again would not dream of saying anything. I just thought that was a bit rude to keep saying it - it was not just once. And then I caught mums illness (although she never acknowledged that - she even later said that I had caught it from DH!) and I came down with it worse (probably because rundown....) and had to be in bed for a couple of afternoons with bad fever and sore throat PLUS look after 2 DCs alone (scant help given there). And that was when my sister said that to me.

So YES do tell me - is it NORMAL that when that happened - and when I was VISIBLY upset and put the DCs to bed and went to bed myself at 7pm - read a mag for a while - that they all stayed downstairs, drank wine, ate dinner and watched TV. And during all that time neither my mum or sister came up to see if I was OK - both because of what was said or illness wise. I am so tarred by this selfish brush that I think I am being unreasonable to think they would do that. Indeed my sister's DH did come up for a chat all credit to him - which was nice - but it upset me that it wasn't one of my family members if you see what I mean.

Tgger - yes that is a good option. DH and I will definitely talk about that when he is back. I have no idea what that would be. My grasp of the native language here is good but I wouldn't be able to work in it (current office is English) - so would need to be something English. I have always hankered after giving something back as well - so maybe part time in the World Food Organisation - within my current field - or something similar. You are right. I should start looking around as I don't think I will know it or think of it it sitting on the sofa - I think I will need to actually see it. If you see what I mean.

Again would mean big lifestyle cut - but I really do not mind that. Am a camping kind of girl anyway!

Yes...that sounds good. You don't necassarily have to stop work...maybe just find one that suits more.

It does get better (been there, done that, got the t shirt) and you have to develop a very thick skin on the way. But it does get better. I have been there with the snide comments - why did you have children to let someone else bring them up, why didn't you marry someone who could support you, why are you so selfish, it's not all about you, etc etc etc.

I think there is an element of jealousy here - you are seen to "have it all" whereas they could/would not.

Mine are now 10 and 12, and are bright, well balanced and well mannered - to the annoyance of a lot of people!

I thnk the OP is putting up with more than snide comments though MrsShadenfreude.

Oh thank you MrsSchadenfreude (and all of you!). I have an awfully thin skin and desperately want to be close to my family so end up being the one who gives in. At least it is not just me. My mum isn't SO overt to say all of that - but it is what she thinks. She says it in a clever way - like when DD was crying in her carseat one day and wanting daddy - my mum said it was because she was obviously distressed with her life situation. Or some such words.

I really don't know about the jealousy thing. My mum never wanted to work. Hates change. Never has regretted her life. Never wanted to move. Doesn't have itchy feet. A couple of friends have said jealousy but I simply cannot see it. They are all smugly happy in their lives. The clearly do NOT want mine.

Lovely that your kids are like that. Good on you!!!!!!!!

Thank you thank you thank you.

I will be seriously talking to DH about this, seeing how I feel going back to work on Monday, looking at other options WHERE I am now and going from there. The third option is looking good at the moment. I think what someone said - going from one extreme to the other is going to be TOO SHOCKING!!!

It sounds as if your family really were being mean.I'm also the middle of 3 girls (I was also classed as the naughty one when young) and I do think that if you follow a different path to your sisters it can become an issue.

My mum also always complains of our house being cold despite her heating always being set at about 16C and ours being much warmer.Next time she comes to stay get your mum a portable heater for the room she is staying in and a hot water bottle and blankets and a slanket for the sofa!

Nothing sounds wrong in your childrens' behaviour.They didn't want to play with your neice and your sister and her dh really should have distracted her away in that case. 4 and 2 is still quite young to be considerate of others' feelings.She isn't so cute to them just a bit annoying and boring.This isn't anything to you being a working mother.

If your ds is unhappy at nursery perhaps he could spend more time at home with the nanny.Also could your dh/nanny do the drop off so you could go into work earlier and be back earlier at least some days of the week?

From what you say I think being a SAHM wouldn't be the answer.Also dropping salary to a lesser role doesn't always bring flexibility as you are still answerable to a boss.The less money you have also removes the ability to have nannies and cleaners thereby bringing with it alot of time cleaning,tidying and you are certainly not playing with the children all the time.

Ignore your mum and sisters and follow the path you and your dh want for your own family.There is a large chunk of jealousy coming into play in their behaviour towards you.

I also think it would be too much to just stop working altogether but it does seem as if it's too much to handle.

I'm self employed and work from home and my workload has increased recently and I just want to chuck it all up in the air...I really enjoy my work usually but the bother of managing that and 2 dds is really geting to me.

It's been joyless and I have felt guilty about ot managing to take the 2 year old to any activities or anything. We're lucky if e go to the park once a week.

I am thinking of stopping for a bit...just not taking anything on...the relief woud be huge.