Don't know where to start with DD1 (11yrs)

[sparrowwatcher44]

Hi, this is my 1st time on here and my 1st post.I really hope someone can help me.
The relationship between myself and my almost 12 yr old 1st born is really breaking down and I am beside myself with worry.I cry almost every day because of how she talks to us(me in particular) and her behaviour.She has an 8 yr old brother who she has never got on with and there is a lot of jealousy.I am still with their dad. I have been a SAHM for most of her life.Because there is only one wage coming in we have to be very careful with money.I am due to do a retraining course very soon to get back into teaching.She doesn't have as much as her friends, we do not have an xbox360, kinnect, she doesn't have a T.V in her room and a lot of other things.
She has always been a headstrong, quite willful child, school has always been problematic.Every year she was in juniors I had problems, she was being bullied, or was bullying.She is very bright but lazy which causes me a lot of frustration.She was bullied because she was popular, because of her intelligence, because she was pretty ,because she wore glasses and there was a lot of jealousy because she could sing and got a lot of attention because of that.
Since starting at secondary it has all gone mental.I know it is a particularly anxious, stressful time, she has had to make a lot of new friends and find her place within the school.She did really well in her yr 6 SATs and I was hopeful of a new school, new start and she did start off really well.Now, I can't even get her to do her homework, she would rather get a 15min detention for not doing it.She went through a phase of getting a lot of detentions.She has taken against a few of her teachers which I knew she would, I know you can't like everyone.She has such a thing about authority and being told what to do.I know that she has a lot of qualities that will probably take her far, she will not back down from anyone, she sticks up for herself, another cause of the bullying but I'm worried she will get into trouble as she also sticks up for her friends and HAS to get involved in their buisness.
I realise I am rambling here, apologies, my specific concerns at the moment are several, she has stopped eating breakfast.What stance am I meant to take with this? I know she is at an age where body image is key but I am really unhappy about her leaving the house without eating.She used to eat cereal, not anymore, she used to eat toast, this is now "gay" (I can't even understand how she talks anymore)I offer her several things but am getting worried I sound desperate that she is using this as a kind of control thing.We have just got her a blackberry curve as all of her friends have one (and they do) and she wanted to have a BB pin and be able to "ping" her friends.We also thought we could use it for leverage possibly.This is also creating problems as we take it off of her at 9pm and she thinks we are punishing her as her friends(and I can't believe this but I have seen it myself) are allowed to stay up all hours during the week and even later at weekends.Are we in a minority here in expecting our not quite 12 yr old to go to bed before 10pm on a week night? Over xmas, she got into a habit of going to bed later and later which I did try to address but I know it takes time.My problem now is that when we ask her to get ready for bed(9.30) she defiantly says "I'm not going to bed now" so even if she was upstairs and in her jammies she would be wanting to BB message, that's why we took it off of her and go on FB (another huge problem) so no laptop in her room and my husband has even had to take away her stereo lead as she would still be up reading, and listening to music when we were going to bed! She is getting to sleep on average after 12 each night, I know this to be too late.She thinks I am nagging, she thinks I am stopping her from doing what she wants but we(her dad and I) don't think we are being unreasonable.What more can we do?, what can we do? I must admit I don't like her new set of friends, one was excluded from her last school for violence and didn't get to do her SATs.We have said, no phone calls after 9pm, that's fair isn't it? but her friends don't listen, so we unplug the house phone(lol) she hasn't worked that out yet.Her friends seem to be allowed to stay up til they drop and seem to be allowed on their laptops/phones/watching DVDs until into the early hours.I don't know what to do, every day we argue and she says such horrible things to me.Your thoughts would be gratefully received as I must admit I am too embarrassed to talk to my friends about her.

Thank you both, this IS helping.

She is talking to her friends which I find dangerous as one threw something really personal she had said back up in her face during a recent argument.I have talked to her about this, she expects a high level of loyalty from her besties as that is the type of friend she is.I think she really misses the good friend she fell out with as I think every girl needs a really good friend especially at this age.

I have come across lots of smug parents, I was sick of one friend telling me about all of the problems I had in store for me over DD.She has 2 boys and must have had a crystal ball :o.I no longer actively seek her out but my husband is doing some electrical work in their home so next time I see her and she asks about DD as I know she will, she is too nosey not too, I will just say I am having a really tough time with her and leave it at that as this will be tortuous for her because she won't be able to give me well, I did say etc. . . because she won't know the details .

I have just lost another long message :>(

Acanthus, I don't entirely agree.We, as a couple have always set boundaries and chased them up, seen them through.She knows the way she speaks to me at times, has spoken to me is unacceptable.I haven't just laid down and taken it.I think it depends on the child too.
Parenting, trying to do it properly isn't easy I agree, that is why I am so frazzled, from trying so hard, not just now but over time.

Thanks I have used parentline before when my daughter was bullied in yr 5 and I wasn't happy with the way they(the school) responded.I agree, they were very good.

Should have said I read how to talk so teenagers will listen so I'm using some of what I've learnt from there which has also helped a bit.

I have also tried to space out the treats so she is only having to be good a few days at a time between treats eg this week I took her swimming monday night, last night she could have gone to guides but chose to do homework instead, tonight dh is out so I'm going to do some painting and have asked if she wants to do painting too (I paint on canvass and she does too) I've said tomorrow night we will watch a film and then she can either go to a sleepover at her friends on saturday or start the watchign tv in her room til a bit later.

It really sounds as if the new friends and social situation are causing her problems here. Have you considered putting her into some after school activities where she could meet people who might be more positive for her? The girls she's friends with now sound poisonous tbh, even for age 11-12-13 (when you tend to see the very worst of girls).

sparrow - you're right of course, all children are different and some are more challenging than others.

But as Acanthus says, we all have to be uber vigilent whatever our children's natures are. More so, if they are naturally more difficult.

It's a fatal error to assume that well behaved kids are just made that way and never give their parents any trouble or that their parents won't have good advice beause they 'dont get it'.
Often these are just the type of Mums who are past masters at damage avoidance and can really help.

Litchick I do agree with you, I don't believe that, and I know that these parents might be able to help also.In my eyes, you are a parent you can speak from experience and that may help :>)

I'll hold my hands up, I was unprepared, I am unprepared for this, she is my eldest , it is all unchartered territory and even if I had older children I know it would be different as no 2 children are the same and all that.

I don't feel very coherent this morning as I had a very bad night sleep wise with cramps and being sick but I just wanted to pop by while I could to just say I appreciate everyones input on this, I am thinking about it all, thank you. I just hope I am well enough for tomorrow as we are meant to be going away for the weekend.

You did mention that she was a good singer. Is there a local group, where she can meet other 'nicer' kids who are a bit more dedicated. It might teach her a bit of discipline as those types of groups don't generally take people who muck around. My dd1 (13) runs twice a week. She meets kids in the local town which gives her a whole new set of friends. It also wears her out!!!!

To follow up on Beachyhead's comment. My LEA' music service runs not just the peripatetic music teaching but also Saturday morning music schools which in fact also offer drama. This includes a rock school! Both my DDs go and love it - DD1 is an uber cool rock chick so it cant be gay!

We have moved house, language and culture in the past and know the value of these out of school activities which create a broad social network for DCs.

From what you describe and I think others on here have seen it, there does seem to be a problem with what is quite possibly only one or two girls at school. As a teacher you will know how it goes - one or two 'gobby' girls are dragging all the others off to hell in a handcart. Is it possible that your daughter wants to break away from these few disruptive friends but lacks the confidance to do it?

BTW I hope you are soon feeling better again!

Thank you, yes she is a good singer, she once told me she had to sing so those that do will probably understand this.
At the moment she does not do any outside groups, she is on the waiting list for a gymnastics class she wants to do I think I will chase them up.She has done stuff in the past and then given it up but now it is all my fault as I didn't MAKE her go to these groups and now she feels all of her friends in fact EVERYONE is so much better at X, Y, and Z.She is in the top set for music and was going to the lunchtime girls choir but was always being late or missing it I suppose because her main friends were not interested. I am not even sure if they are aware she can sing, I did tell her form tutor it was a particular strength of her.Today I am thinking of trying to phone the school and speak to someone in the music dept.I want to get her a mid-priced keyboard as they are learning that this term and I think it might give her a focus.She was playing the Oboe and I was extremely proud knowing how hard an instrument it is to play and it's an unusual one too.The music teacher said she had a natural gift but my daughter blew it off after only a couple of months.The music teacher has since written me 2 letters saying how disappointed she was that she returned her Oboe.I just want to go ARGHHHHHHHHH!!! ladies.It was her choice, she said she couldn't sing and play the Oboe at the same time, fair enough.

Two of her friends had their blackberrys confiscated in school yesterday.If I knew that she has taken hers in(I can't trust her I need to check) I would phone the school and grass her up I feel that strongly about it AND I wouldn't go back to collect it at the earliest possible time.All of her friends take theirs in and if you look on their FB pages it says rubbish like "in the corrider", "in science" "at lunch" etc.

This morning I refused to give her a lift over to her skanky friends.I normally give her a lift part of the way but she was taking too long to get ready and I didn't like her cheek.I thought "what are you doing? She is making a mug of you" So she came downstairs all cocky like I handed her her door keys and said "there you go I'm not giving you a lift you have taken too long and I don't care for the way you are speaking to me" Her face was a picture , then she tried to blackmail me with "well if you don't give me a lift I won't have anyone to walk to school with so I won't bother going to school" I told her she wasn't going to blackmail me that I would know because the school would phone me and that she would get picked up by the police or the truant officers and that if she hadn't have taken so long, hadn't spoken to me like that then I would have given her a lift.
I shut the door and sat shaking for a good 10 mins.
We gave her some frosted shreddies this morning, she protested I calmly said she had time to eat them then I ignored her.She ate half a bowl, I took them away no comment.She left her blackberry this morning, this in an expectation we have explained why, so SHE CAN do it but it's bl@@dy wearing.

Hi Sparrow - well done!

Is your daughter yet old enough to consider giving her a monthly allowance rather than pocket money? This to be used for things such as clothes and er.. mobile phone costs. That way the messaging crap might be less attractive.

ok, can you be totally fake (I say this because I know it will be hard for you) and be very very NICE - it is so frustrating when you are trying to be mean and horrible and not care when the main person you are being this way with just seems cool confident and happy. But at the same time you need strength - I appreciate that can be difficult when you feel so low and worried too. If you do NOTHING, then she won;t surely notice when she has no clean clothes/bedding/food etc. She seems to be searching out a reaction constantly - and you are the victim. Well every dog has it's day and yours needs to come soon! You WILL find this strength - you WILL!

She is seeming to want to hurt you at the minute - and it is like if she hurts you and puts you down, she doesn't have to like you - as you don't fit with her new group of friends apparent life. If she admits defeat and works with you, then it's like admitting her friends are fools and her boring old Mum is right (I do not mean I think you are boring lol)

It also wouldn't surprise me that if you had a very relaxed invites eom friends over - that these friends would be very polite and courteous towards you (Ok I may be wrong, but I have seen it before) - even if they are being fake - I bet your DD wouldn't see these friends come to your house and be rude and swear at you - and i bet she is all sweetness and light at her friends too!

I agree with oopsydaisy and other similar posters too in what they have already said.

Crap presents? Fine, no more then! Crap food? Fine, do it yourself - sweetheart (said with a smile)

On the breakfast side of things - I NEVER ate breafast as a teenager - but I wasn't a fusy eater admittedly. I just couldn't bear to eat in the morning and still struggle now.

Hope you are ok

when I said if you do NOTHING - I was referring to her incredibly rude put down of you............eek, hope that makes sense!

ooh well done sparrow - sorry just read your latest post! The singing might be a way forwrd and away from these girls maybe?

Her problem is she tries something, she is not instantly good at it, she gives up, it's like she isn't prepared to put in the effort and practice.She started x country running , she was good at it, she gave up.She goes netball but doesn't like the fact she is not in the A team.Every single thing is someone elses fault, that kind of thing.

She has a planner where she is meant to write down stuff like what homework is, when it is due etc, I used to use it to try and organise her and help her.She hardly writes in it now so I have no clue what she is meant to be doing and for when.She is missing clubs because I suppose she would rather walk with her friends.I was speaking to the mum of one of her new friends last night and I mentioned the reticence to do homework thing and she said "I'm glad you said that" she was getting similar but not as bad as me.I felt a little better after speaking to her but her DD is very sporty, her older sisters told her to throw herself into as many clubs as possible to make lots and lots of friends.That is the similar line I took as the school does offer a lot of different clubs but what do I know I am just her rubbish mum.I can't even say it is the influence of her friends as from what I see her friends do DO their homework and they do it before my DD.I give her time to do it, I offer help but she has this couldn't give a sh@t attitude which amazes me.I thought in Secondary school the teachers would carry more clout and she would be scared of the consequences of NOT doing it! The sanction is, no homework, 15min detention.The sanction SHOULD be no homework 15 min detention, + you do the homework and if it happens on a too regular basis, phonecall home to parents. I have phoned the school, I didn't want to but I need answers.the head of year is going to get back to me so I need to go and get my head sorted, with coffee and bullet points.Lets hope I don't need the loo again :>(

Maxybrown, I have just reread your post and I do think you are right, she is trying to hurt me(and succeeding too)so that it is easier not to like me.I am always right, not in an I told you so way or a what did I say way.I am trying so hard to bite my lip and not say things but she even admitted that a friend I said was unsuitable, the one she got up to all sorts on the sleepover with and the one who I did not say very nice things about when I got upset and angry, that yes, she was exactly how I had said!That doesn't make me feel good, just sad.I know at this age the friendships are fluid, that they find their place, eventually.

I can't have her , no I won't have her causing such a disruption.My poor son this morning was looking a bit upset, I thought it was my daughter.Turned out he was worried about an English piece of writing he had to do this morning, how did I miss that? So I quickly went through it with him offering suggestions as to how he could make it more detailed.

I wonder if a lot of it is now her fear of you going back to college and work.I'm a sahm,but now my eldest is coming up to 12,I've had lots of comments,that her friend thinks its weird I don't work.My husband works away a lot and we have no family close by to help,middle daughter keeps being sent home ill.I have been thinking about a college course though;but I realise my girls have had it easier than most with me being at home.I drive them around with their friends places,they get to go to town sometimes with me after school.My working mum friend,just wouldn't get the chance.I'm always available for them,and I think it would scare them a bit if I suddenly wasn't at home.

You could be right lovelymumma, things are going to change significantly in our household week after next.I am going to be away from home from before 8 in the morning until 4.30 poss 5pm 3 days a week and in the evening I will need to do some studying to catch up on the shorter days I will be doing because of childcare.They have known about this since Sept time last year as it has taken a long time to get on a suitable course but yeah, it is fast approaching.

I have always been available too and yes I do the I'll take you to x thing or I get the you can take us to x thing as naturally I do NOTHING!!!!! (her words)

Goodluck sparrowwatcher44,ha,ha,I think I'm the only one of my eldest friends mums,who stops cooking tea mid flow to pick them all up from somewhere,cause I have nothing else to do!My 11 year old is headstrong,I have to shout at her or threaten to get her dad to come upstairs to get her to bed.hate it;constant battle.If she's being really mouthy,I tell her she can't go to friends or out,and then she often carries on arguing,so I just state that I've said what I'm going to say,and I'm not going to talk anymore until she calms down.But.. then she's not 12 til May,so maybe I've got it all to come.

Hi Sparrow - catching up with you again.

Glad to see so much support for you here and sorry to all of you with similar challenges.

There are no right or wrong answers to any of it.

I have posted loads of advice for you on here but ultimately I don't really know what I'm saying is going to work because every day I am seeking solutions to issues in my own household. No-one has all the answers - it's all a bit of suck it and see.

From my perspective, I have a 14 year old ds and an 11 year old dd.

In my experience boys and girls really are from Mars and Venus. They are completely different, each bringing their own challenges to the world, but equally their own wonderful qualities and abilities also.

This sort of age is when girls start to find out what their qualities and abilitites are. Some find them straight away and the years go by quite smoothly. Others hurl their frustrations/fear/anger/impatience back at the world because they cannot quite "find" themselves.

Don't forget - when you are frightened/frustrated etc - you always hurt the person you love the most.

That's YOU, Mum. ie, - she loves you.