How do i explain sex to a 4yr old?

[pesha]

Have just been reading the 'furry bottom' thread and followed the links to the menstruation threads and i totally agree with the being very open and honest and straight forward so that its something they can always talk to you about and dont feel embarrassed by. But i havent really told my dd (4.10) about anything yet as she hasnt specifically asked. She knows where babies come from but not how they get there. I would like to have a talk with her and not wait for her to come to me and especially now she's just started school as you never know what they're gonna hear from other kids.

So i want to be straight with her, none of this "mummy and daddy have special cuddles to make a baby", but i dont know how much to tell her, i dont want to give her tmi but i dont want to not give her enough and leave her confused either.

I think i will prob sit down and tell her some things and then let her ask questions if theres anything more she wants to know and let her guide me iyswim but i still would really like some advice as to what to tell her at first and what not to say etc. Dont get me wrong im not thinking about explaining orgasms and positions and things just the basics but not quite sure what constitutes the basics for a 4yr old.

I dont remember ever having this conversation myself as a child and could never talk to my mum or anyone about sex or periods or anything and i really dont want it be like that for me and her.

TIA

Why would that traumatise them???!!!

My dd knows where babies come from, not cos i told her but she caught a couple of minutes of a birth programme on sky when i was pregnant with ds so she knows that mummy was in hospital screaming and ds came out of my 'mini' but she's not remotely upset, scared or traumatised by this she just accepts it as a fact and proudly told the whole of tescos a few weeks after ds was born that " this is my baby brother he came out my mummys mini"
So im completely sure that she would deal with sex in the same way, im sure a wiily going in mummys mini isnt nearly as scary a thought as a great big baby coming out (it wasnt for me anyway )
In fact i would think the younger they are introduced to the idea the less likely they are to be traumatised by it.

And titchy why wouldnt you want a 7yo to use a tampon, im not trying to be funny about it, ive always used tampons, i HATE towels, so not sure i see the problem, they're available in mini sizes. But there probably is a problem i just havent thought of, ive never really given it any thought.

I don't think that discussing sex with kids 'traumatises' them. As long as it is done in a calm, supportive way and you limit the information to that which the child needs. They will ask for the facts they want. When satisfied they will stop. It is a natural function of living things and as such is no different to giving them information on movement or growth.

To be honest the more matter of fact you are about it, the better IMHO. I would much rather my children learn the facts from me, that some distorted scare story in the playground.

I have also told them that this is not something that you just discuss with friends, rather like we don't discuss deffication at the dinner table

Pesha- i think we think alike on this one! I don't get the problem with tampons either. I have boys anyway, but- well- it's just a body function isn't it? it's really not that big deal, or at least it shouldn't be. I will ensure my boys understand about periods, condoms, the lot by the time they are ten (the youngest sexually active child I knew at school was ten). And that doesn't mean telling them once either, they won't understand much from that. And I will make damned sure by the time they get to thirteen or so that they know about STD's, what to do if condoms fail, where to go if they need to chat to someone impartial, ofh yes and all about homosexuality too.

Absolutely peachyclair, i want to be as open and honest with her as possible about everything as she grows up, and my ds. I dont want them having any hang ups or prejudices or fears or anything. You cant shelter them from the outside world the best you can do is educate them so they are prepared for it.

I actually havent told dd very much so far mainly because as i said earlier it has only ever come up at the worst possible times but i feel i really should start introducing the subject so that she's then free to ask for as much or as little info as she wants.

And i have to admit i do have some difficulties with discussing certain things myself, not with her or very close friends but i do feel uncomfortable talking about things with my mum and people i dont know very well which wouldnt be a problem but up until quite recently im sure she would have gone and told all and sundry everything i told her so ive been putting off talking about tampons and periods and have avoided the issue when its come up. But now i feel she is old enough to have this information and i think she's less likely to just announce it to everyone although she may well ask grandma some questions. But i think its more important now that i do answer her questions and if she does announce it to the world well im feeling grown up enough now myself to deal with it!! And my hang ups come from not being told about it myself as a child so never feeling able to ask and im determined that it wont be like that for us.

And i may well say what you said hmb about not discussing it with friends, and total strangers, although i may have to think of a different example as she is at present shouting at the top of her voice at me through the window about the dog doing a very sloppy poo so not sure the not talking about poo would really cut it with her!

And sorry if im repeating myself a bit here or waffling im trying to do a hundred other things as well so keep popping in and out to add abit more!!

Titchy sure leave it till the child is 9-10 BUT what happens if the child at the age of 8 (like many in school mum works in) starts her periods? surely she would have been better prepared had her parents spoke to her about this?

Stitch how does this traumatise them? My son was 4 1/2 when we explained this to them. He accepted it and that was that. He was more traumatised by the fact he lost his beloved grandad than the fact he knows about sex and yes in detail.

Innocence is not the same thing as ignorance. Anatomical facts are facinating and not rude or horrifying.

I taught secondary science at school and it is horrifying that these prematurely sexualized kids understand all about blow jobs but not about how to make or prevent babies.

I had to comfort a girl who was petrified because she thought that her tampon had got lost inside her. She couldn't go to her mum because it was too embarrasing

Vaunda - generally if a girl is about to start her periods there are other indications which may lead her mum to this conclusion and so should have time to broach the subject in reasonable time.

It won't traumatise them! I knew penises went into vaginas to make babies from a very early age, and all I thought was that mums and dads had to go to hospital to do this - I envisaged it somewhat along the lines of a plumbing connection - under the attendant care of several white-coated medical personnel. Personally I found that account a bit clinical, as I didn't fit it together with sex and cuddles for ages, but it certainly didn't turn me into a shuddering inhibited wreck.

Me, I tell DD1, who's four, that men have a seed liquid (I got confused with garden seeds for ages) and women have eggs, and you need to put the two together to make babies. As we have quite a lot of lesbian mother friends and relatives, I've got that to contend with too!

Oh, and I think they've both seen me putting in tampons, doesn't seem to have traumatised them either.

I think refusing to answer questions honestly and in as much detail as they ask for will only make them believe its a taboo subject and be afraid to ask you when they're older.
I want to lay the grounds for an open and honest relationship between me and my daughter and I believe the only way I can do that is to give her any information she asks for.

When she's 16 I want her to feel able to come to me if she's thinking of having sex with a boyfriend and talk it through without being embarassed about it or thinking I won't understand. For that to happen I know I have to be comfortable discussing it with her from an early age.
I knew all the basics from a very early age and was always more knowledgeable about sex growing up because my Mum wasn't embarassed to discuss it. I also waited longer than most of my friends to have sex and was much more responsible when I finally did. Thats what I want for my child thankyou very much, not a teenager who gets pregnant because she's too embarrassed to ask how not to.

Jampots im not sure there always are other indications and i think waiting til something is just about to happen and then saying ok this is about to happen feel free to ask me anything isnt really going to work.

I remember my mum telling me when i was about 12 or 13 that i could talk to her about anything but that was the first id heard of it!! IME you cant just tell a child they can talk to you and expect them to be ok with this you have to work on building a relationship of openness from a very early age

SEX IS LIKE COCA COLA

Appologies in advance if I repeat what others have said as I have not read the full thread.

1. Have some friends who where advised by child psychologist to deal with the issue with very natural and not highly informative information, So the answer they have prepared to give when their under six's ask about sex is: "Sex is like Coca Cola, just for grown ups".

2. The previous example may look a bit simplistic but after the following you will understand why, in some occasions the Coca Cola answer is a much better option:

Another friend who is a doctor and who likes to be as accurate as possible when answering questions to her 4 yrs old, went through this the following.

a) 4 yr old asks how babies are made, mother answers about the little seeds that daddies plant in mums' tummies. 2 days later finds 4 yr old pushing orange seeds at her belly button. So...

b) Child asks how on Earth daddy gets to put a seed inside, so Mum, who is a doctor, heads to the library and gets an illustrated explaining-sex-to-children book. Book they both look at and girl has her questions about differences between men and women answered. Then the girl start asking every child and adult whether they have a vagina or a penis. And also starts telling people that she is expecting a baby. Sooooo

c) Mum explains she can not get pregnant as her body is not yet ready for that, girl asks how would know when she is ready and mum explains about menstruation, blood, etc.

d) Mum then complains to me (that's how I knew of the story) that her 4 yrs old had been folding toilet paper and placing it in her pants as compresses, she had been doing that for a couple of months and still mum can't convince her DD that years will pass before she gets that first spotting.... Soooo

e) Better to say that "Sex is like Coca Cola, just for grown ups" than a small child who doesn't really know what to do with the information she has been provided with...

So where is the harm in a child experimenting with toilet paper in her knickers?
None of the points made in the previous posts seem to me to be particularly reasons to avoid explaining things.
I don't mind if my little girl explains to everyone she meets where babies come from, she'll get a healthy view of the world's attitudes to sexuality that way I feel.

Obviously as part of the explanation you'll be telling them its only for grownups but its totally better to learn it all accurately from parents and be able to ask all the questions you like than to figure out bits and pieces from overhearing conversations or from the playground and have some totally strange and possibly disturbing ideas about it all.
The children who get accurate but gentle information from their parents are generally much more at ease with it than those who are left wondering, and yes, they wonder from an early age.

I agree Roxswood.

As I said previously, I learned about sex at an early age due to a book that my parents gave me aimed at children my age.

I certainly didn't have any "issues" after reading it. I asked my parents some mighty odd questions, but what child doesn't - and as subsequent posters said, what better way to learn than from your parents? Also, in retrospect, I suppose at least I got to base my questions on fact and not supposition and didn't need to ask why I couldn't push seeds through my belly button! (I do think that is rather sweet though)

There was no doubt in my mind after reading that book how babies were made. I also knew that at some point in my life I would have periods - and my mum showed me a sanitary towel (belt and loops ) that she had saved in case she was successful at adopting and needed to show her daughter.

What I meant to say, is that you may get your children a bit over worried for soemthing that will be easier to asimilate when they are a bit older. I would hate a daughter of mine stressing about "having an accident" at that age (far from happening and nothing she could do about it anyway). But each to their own.

Actually, I have just read a thread on a similar vein about what to say about menstruation - read a link to Spidermamas explanation and I think something she said is very pertinent - children are like sponges and every little lie we tell them, no matter how white, goes in.

Innocuous example.... Me aged 23 on Hen Weekend. Sunday gives rise to drunken stupor hangover type wander around Whitby whereupon the group stumbles across a joke shop. Spend a good 5 minutes happily pointing at things in the window until "the group" suggest going inside.

"NO!" I pipe up "WE CAN'T!".
"Why not?" query the group.
"Well, because you have to buy something if you go into a joke shop - you're not allowed to leave until...." [voice trails off into tone realising I've been duped for 23 years of my life emoticon]

Thank GOD I knew about sex at least.

As I said my dd started to ask for information at about 4.5 and we have had no sudden escalation of demands for more info.

In general I eel that if a child asks a question they deserve and answer. Now, it has to be honest, but it also has to be age appropriate. When dd asked for info on reproduction she didn't get the sixth form lecture . But she did get an honest answer that statisfied her curiosity.

When she wanted more info she asked for it, as I said in just the same way as she asks about why we breathe or why dogs pant when they are hot.

Making sex education an 'adult only' topic is storing up trouble IMHO.

I firmly believe that you should just simply and matter of factly answer the questions asked and when they stop asking, you stop giving them information.

Perhaps that is exactly what it is Chandra - each to their own. I was never personally worried by having an "accident" though.

I remember even wishing I would, as my ticket to womanhood!

Those are the key words Sally: age appropriate

They are Chandra, yes.

I was laughing to myself at an earlier comment "and the penis goes into the vagina..." How would anyone say that in an age appropriate way?

Concluded it would be best said in a Swedish Chef from the muppets accent, and only in adult company

OK, well age appropriate in that case may not even mean telling tem that the penis and the vagina are involved.

For very small children they may well be satisfied with mummy makes a tiny egg and daddy has a special seed. Mine were.

Later on if they ask for more info , give it to them. use the names that you use for the organs involved, if that is what the children have asked you.

In some ways it can be useful to inroduce children to the real words before they go to school. Mu friend was a reception teacher and they had one poor boy who had trapped his foreskin in his zip. He had a rather obscure word for his penis, and no-one could understand the poor child, adding to his pain and distress until his mother could be found.

You may have a good point there HMB, even though vagina pronounced by a tiny girl may look a bit clinical, I much preffer it than having the little girl saying she has a problem with "her flower" (ARRRGHHH)

I think if you stick to 'your bog standard' names for these things, like willy for penis in the UK, you are OK. This poor boy had some odd name for it, and no-one knew what he was on about until the mum arrived

At the moment we still work with 'willy' and 'bits'. In time, I'll tell then the right words.

I remember someone once complaining about a 10 year old beimg given 'Anus' as a spelling word , along with other digestive tract words. I think that one is far better than the horrid 'bum hole'! I'm fed up of snickering boys muttering about 'bum holes' in my digestion lessons

I recently told my 6 1/2 yr old (with his younger sister, just turned 5) as he wanted to know the "how" of things. I think that in the end it's much easier to just tell the truth in a simple way, as otherwise the analogies etc can get very complicated.

He likes fact books, and I went for a simple factual picture book to explain. He was quite interested and asked a few questions, and then when I was doing the penis bit he just said "yuk" and hasn't asked since. dd just listened.

I'm sure it will come up again, and I will answer whatever questions they have. Can't really see any problem with that approach really. I'm not worried about the school playground at this point, but they stay with my mum in the country quite a bit and visit a local farm, with two slightly older kids. At Easter time they got to help with lambing, and were most interested in both the new lambs and the dead ones in the corner. I liked the way that the farm children were so matter of fact, and it didn't phase my two at all. I think that's the way it should ideally be.

My Dcs are given the standard egg and seed answer which seems to have satisfied them so far (they are 7 and 5).

My children know that babies either come out of a special hole in mummy's bottom or by cutting open your tummy (through the sunroof as DS helpfully analysed)!

But imagine my horror when standing in the supermarket queue having had another egg and seed chat as DS in that cut through the air voice that only children possess says 'mummy, can you show me the special hole in your bottom where I came out of'!!!!!!

Everyone in the queue and near vicinity started to giggle - time stood still - what the hell do I say...

Ermmmm no darling - look there are some sweets there would you like some