First two weeks of school, been late EVERY DAY, HELP

[systemsaddict]

Please please help, I was in tears over this this morning. Ds has just started school, half days in reception, he's loving it but we cannot seem to get out of the door in time to get to school on time, we are consistently 10 minutes late.

I am getting up at 5.45, getting clothes ready the night before, kids are up between 6 and 7, we need to leave between 8.15 and 8.30. I am never late for anything if it's just me but I simply CANNOT get the kids to get ready on time (dd is just 2, ds is just 4).

It's a behaviour issue rather than an organisational issue; I can get them ready earlier but this doesn't help. Getting them dressed is always a real struggle. If either of them is dressed in good time, one will just get undressed again while I'm dressing the other one. Or there will be an ill-timed poo to be cleared up just as we need to leave. Or ds will refuse to do a wee and start to wee on himself and need changing. If we get to the car in good time, they refuse to get in their car seats, or one straps themselves out while I'm strapping the other one in. Or a major tantrum or fight just at the wrong moment. I guess this is fairly normal behaviour for small children; but then everyone else at the school has small children and seems to get them there on time. It didn't matter so much when they were at nursery (and fortunately my work is flexible) but it does now.

Dp is useless in the mornings - whole nother issue there - so let's assume it's down to me. I feel COMPLETELY powerless and really upset about this. Can anyone help??

It might be worth trying a star chart - they get a star for being dressed, a star for getting into their carseats without an argument, a star for getting to school on time etc - and a certain number of stars equals a treat like icecream for pudding, or (for more stars) a dvd or trip to the cinema.

Or you could make it a race between them, to see who can get dressed and ready for school fastest - and the winner gets to pick a dvd in the evening or gets a special badge to wear after school.

Hope that helps - and I promise that it will get easier. One of my dses can get his paper round done, have a shower, get ready for school and get to school half an hour early to hang out with his friends. The other two do manage to do their paper rounds and get dressed, but they do tend to cut it rather fine, and I have ended up driving one or the other to school because they've sat dopily over their cereal for so long that they missed the bus.

They are also absolutely pants at making sure their stuff is ready for school - you'd think that at 13, 15 and 17, they'd realise that 'Get your stuff ready for school tomorrow and make sure that you have everything you need' means that you have to collect it all together in one place, or at least make sure you have clapped eyes on it and know where it is - oh, and that it also means that if homework needs printing out, this should be done and the homework should be in your bookbag, ready to go - but you'd be wrong!

Apparently it is enough to assume you know where your tie/school shoes/trousers/PE kit* are - the fact that you end up running round like a fly with a blue bottom in the morning because stuff is not where you assumed it was, is beside the point altogether!

This does sound fairly depressing, but the upside is that I now have to have very little to do with the process, other than giving them occasional time-checks, occasionally bollocking them or driving them to school, and kissing hthem goodbye as they leave - almost all of which I can do without getting out of my nightshirt and dressing gown!

• • delete as appropriate.

dont be upset,it will get better.you need a routine.
ive been there and it does work.i have 4 children that have to be out by 8.15.
find a routine that best works for you and stick to it,they are prob finding mornings a bit of a circus too.
also reward charts are good at this age-with a mag or similar at end of good week,your 2 yr old make like a sticky star.
i used to make a counting chart too ,to see who did things the quickest,with a sticker as reward.schools use sticker rewards all the time ,my youngest is 6 and hes proud as punch whenever he gets one.

Oh thank you people you are giving me hope! :-) SDTG your description of your kids' assuming where things are then running round after them is my dp trying to get ready - and he is 37 ...

We need to avoid 'win/lose' competitions as my son massively overreacts if he doesn't win (he is still getting over not winning musical statues at his 3rd birthday party - we have some sensitivity / inflexibility issues with him!). I will try (again) with star charts and stickers; I have tried them before but I don't think I'm consistent enough with them. I like the idea of breaking the routine down more.

Hmm, they do love a special treat of a chocolate hobnob in the morning after eating healthy breakfast (I figure it's oats - so like porridge - no?), I could make it conditional on getting all their stars ...

You could save the special treat until they are actually in the car, strapped in and the engine is on - then you cut out the risk of the car seat/tantrum/weeing everywhere. Maybe have a timer set for 8.15am and keep it in the car, then if everyone is in when it goes off, the treat can be dolled out. PLus, there's the novelty value of the timer going off. And if you aim for 8.15, rather than 8.30, you do have that bit of time in case anything hoes wrong.

And does DD have to be dressed for the school run? If you're coming home straight afterwards, a trip in the car in pjs and a snowsuit over wouldn't be the end of the world.

Your DP sounds like my husband - asks over and over again every morning "have you seen my watch?" "have you seen my phone?" "have you seen my car pass for work?" "are you SURE you haven't seen my watch/phone/pass?".
And he had the nerve to accuse me of being stroppy when I finally cracked and said that yes, I knew exactly where all his possessions were, but I was pretending I didn't as I enjoyed the incessant questioning so very much

Don't worry, the school run will get better. Promise!

Oh Scooter I like that, then they have a real incentive to get ready and into their seats! I could go with small jelly sweets or something that won't get chocolate all over them ... (I swore never to use foods as a reward before having kids, heigh ho, 2 kids close together and all my principles went up in smoke in favour of just getting through the day!). They understand timers, I could set an alarm on my phone, that would work. A prize they could both aim for, without anyone winning and losing, would be a really good idea.

Dd needs to be ready as she's going to nursery, most days anyway; though the days dp has her I could just leave it all to him.

Have you got to get the little one dressed ?

I don't change my 20mo in the morning untill we've dropped DD off at school. There are plenty of babies in the playground in babygrows or pyjamas.. it's a normal thing to do. 2yo might be pushing the limits of it a bit but if your seriously getting up before 6 and are still late every day then you have nothing to lose by trying it. We get up at 7.45 ( 7.55 this morningyawn) and are out of the door by 8.30.

Oh, i've just seen you mentioned nursery.. do you have to drop the 2yo there ? The PJ thing might not work then ?

I dunno, put them to bed in their clothes ?

Wow AH I am so impressed - 7.55!! - it has literally been years since I got to stay in bed after 6! and how you manage to get everything done in 45 minutes is completely beyond my imagination ...!

Ds is extremely unco-operative though, maybe it's different with other children. I could probably manage better if dd was the older one as she is already dressing herself (even changes her own nappy on occasion) while I am still pushing ds' arms through his tops for him otherwise we'd never get anywhere!

Could I ask what that 45 minutes of getting ready time actually looks like in your house? It sometimes takes me that long to persuade mine to start eating breakfast ...

Well if he is just being a little monkey and not getting dressed, undressing himself, not going to the loo etc I would back right off and threaten to take him to school in his PJs.

And if he still doesn't do it, then take him in his PJs. He won't do it again! I had to do this with DD3 before nursery one day, she ended up getting dressed in the car park.

Seriously, if it's taking you 2.5 hours to get yourself and 2 children ready something is going to have to give, so get tough and follow through. Set a timer and when it beeps it's time to get shoes on. Set a timer for eating breakfast and if he hasn't started/finished when it goes off then take breakfast away.

We get out the door pretty quickly too so 6.55 we are downstairs having breakfast. Then ds dresses himself (6 now but has done since 4) and I pull dd into some clothes and then make her sit on the potty using a biscuit as an incentive. I then run and get dressed, come back down, get al the school stuff onto the buggy and get dd into it.

I then start shouting about shoes - which they both do themselves and we leave at 7.40.

Other posters on here have taken their dcs to school in their pjs to make a point to them to do it themselves - not sure that would be for me though.

Sitdown with them both and make a list together with lots of interaction of all the things you need to do in the morning ot get to school on time and label them - clothes, breakfast, shoes etc with pics and then you just need to shout the next thing in the list iyswim.

I also remember someone on here doing a picture chart for their dc with times and a picture of the child doing whatever they should be doing at 8am, for example, so you could take a pic of ds putting on his shoes and stick that next to 8am. That might help guide him through the morning, particularly if the last pic is them both strapped into the car with their treat!

You need to be totally ready yourself & have everything to hand. Breakfast on the table, school bags by the door, kids shoes & yours shoes lined up, dvd ready to go. Have spare clothes, socks, nappies & wipes to hand.

Get up & get yourself ready. Big coffee helps!

Get kids up, on the loo & then breakfast.

As soon as they finish clear bowl/plate away. Back on the loo & teeth & hair brushed

Dress them & put on socks and shoes & coats. Put on your shoes/coat. Have a 5mins cartoon to watch whilst you do this. Pingu is the right length.

Out of the door. Zero tolerence to any distractions. Into the car & you mean business so you ignore any wriggling and just strap them in. No pleading to sit still. Have a treat handy - a book to look at, a toy for the car.

Off you go!!

I know Sidge, 2.5 hours seems completely crazy doesn't it! This is why I have been feeling so impotent over the whole thing. Seeing the concrete details of other people's routines is really helpful.

A lot of this is caused by constantly having to manage ds' behaviour. He is prone to violent meltdown tantrums, and if I push him too hard to do stuff (especially if he's tired) he just explodes (screaming scratching kicking hitting ...) and then the whole thing goes down the pan. We constantly need to find ways to make him do the everyday stuff that needs to be done, without triggering monster behaviour - with a combination of carrots and sticks - it's bloody hard work and tbh I feel a bit worn down by it all atm! I love the idea of PJs in the playground though - we could never actually do it, he would be a screaming spitting wreck, but it might work as a threat to keep him focused / moving.

Well we get up and brush teeth and have a swish with a wet flannell then we come downstairs and the kids have their breafast ( wheatabix and fruit and then a banana or toast ) while I drink tea and make the lunchbox then DD dresses herself and I change Ds's nappy then I brush DD's hair and straighted her out and then we migth wtch peppa pig and then we leave. I sort DS out and have breakfast when we get back.

My DD's older though, she'll be 6 in the new year and has always been easy and tbh there are no simalarities between our situations.. I don't have to get myself ready for work or DS ready..I rock up most mornings with sleepy dust in my eyes looking live i've been dragged though a hedge and DS is the same. You have 2 gets to get completly ready and yourself looking presentable, that is a LOT harder!

I always find bribery is a great incentive.. We only started watching Peppa because that was what we bribed DD with to get hersllf ready. A lot of people don't like TV in the mornings but I couldn't get out of bed before 6 if my life depended on it so we do whatever works. Do your DC like peppa or something ? could you record some little 10 minutes of a program they love and try that ?

Bluecardi I am going to use your list as a checklist tomorrow.

Have to say though I would love to be able to do 'ignore any wiggling and strap them in' to their seats, it would transform my existence - in a previous life I had a green belt in a rather nasty form of martial art - and nevertheless both children are strong enough to resist any of my physical attempts to make them get in their seats when they are resisting. I am sure they watch the Exorcist for tips when we're not looking ...!

Thanks AH. We use too much TV and computer in the morning actually, I think we'd be better off with less, but I know I use it as a coping strategy, letting them watch stuff so I can try and get things done. If they're split up - ds in front of TV and dd in front of CBeebies iplayer - at least they're not fighting and I can focus on one at a time. But it's a distraction and probably contributes to the behaviour issues - vicious circle.

I had thought about 'no TV till you're ready for school' but for instance this morning ds got up when he heard me get up and I managed to get a shower only by letting him watch something, so that strategy went straight out the window.

Sorry I'm whining now! This is all incredibly helpful of you all thank you :-)

Op, do you think you are giving them TOO much time? It's just that 2 1/2 hours is a long time for a young child to focus. As others have said, breakfast has a certain time limit. If not eaten, then they go hungry. They won't do it too many times - especially if a 'treat' is removed from their lunch box as well (assuming there is a treat in the lunch box!!). Do it at the same time, remove the breakfast and then take the treat out of the lunch box and back into the cupboard. If nothing else dinner will be eaten well !

I think the time frame is stressing you and them out. If they get up early, then just let them veg out for a bit, while you do something else - THEN start the morning routine.

Yes, I think I'm overcomplicating it. All they REALLY need to do at this stage is: breakfast - dressed to shoes - out the door. The fact that we're not managing that suggests there's other stuff going on that is distracting from that. Admittedly I am always trying to do other stuff at the same time.

I really like the idea of using the pips on Radio 4 as a timer, the Today programme is always on, my little window to sanity amidst the chaos! We could use the 7am pips as the start time of the routine and the 8am ones as the finish. Surely half an hour for breakfast and half an hour for dressed must be manageable!

Will report back tomorrow.

I find I have to break things down:

• We HAVE to be eating breakfast by 7.30am

• We HAVE to be upstairs and brushing teeth/washing faces and hands by 8am. If they haven't eaten breakfast in time- tough.

• We have to be getting dressed by 8.10am.

• We have to have shoes and coats on by 8.30am.

• We have to be in the car and off by no later than 8.40am

If things get done more quickly then they get sit and watch TV before we go. I need to have my shower and get dressed before their breakfast. Bags are packed and left by the front door the night before. TBH, I also found with my 4 year old that the threat of being late for school and having to go in through the office rather than in the line with the classmates helped to keep him on track. (Not so useful fir the 2 year old, I know).

When ds was younger we sometimes made it into a big racing game as well - anything to get them on board - we used to sing the song from that Beebies programme 'we've got to do it, we've got to do it, we've got to beat the clock before its time' or whatever...

Also would the older one be distracted from acing up with some responsibility - ie giving him a kitchen timer and letting him set it and help his sibling get dressed etc?

Fayrazzled that's a thought, they start lining up in the playground next week so that might be a big motivator for him - he's extremely socially self-conscious about some things.

Omni it would be more likely to work the other way round - my little girl absolutely loves to take on responsibility and help out with things - whereas ds is more likely to just look at me as if I'm mad if I suggest it! I am constantly trying not to stereotype these as utterly gendered behaviours!

SKipped up the page so sorry if this has been said - can the 2 yo be put in the car in PJs and get to school early and put some clothes on there while the other is in the car seat?

I take a 4 yo, a 2 yo and a 10week old and it's a nightmare but I try and be there (and have succeeded so far) at 8.30 each day so if aby needs feeding I can sit in playground and do it. Baby stays in his sleesuit (he only wears sleepsuits anyway), usually the one he has slept in as if I am lucky I will wake him as we are just about to go out the door. ALl clothes are laid out ready, sometimes by the door so I know they will stay clean while I dress the other one (!). Breakfast etc. all done by about 7.50, rush them to the door, wipe faces and dress one then the other quickly, strap in car, go back and get baby and go.

You could always dress the 2 yo in a long sleeved T shirt and jogging bottoms for bed and then just whack a jumper on for the school run. Concentrate on the one going to school is what I am trying to do, if we are ever running late then my 2yo will definatly be going in PJs rather than be late.

ASLD I am very very very impressed with your achievement!! I barely coped with getting just two of them dressed AT ALL when I had a 10 week old, and you have 3 and are getting them to school - wow!!

Little one is in nursery 3 days a week but actually even so, dressing her in day/night clothes for bed would add a degree of much-needed flexibility as I could always get her properly dressed once we got to nursery, if everything did go pear-shaped. It is the notion of "dress one then the other quickly" that I struggle with - some days each single item of clothing is a pitched battle ...

But getting dressed by the door is a really good idea - it would focus them on why they are getting dressed, and it's away from other distractions. We have a trampoline outside, and getting out onto that could be an immediate reward for being dressed, if the weather's OK.

I do sympathise systemsaddict, I really do.

My DD2 has SN and is disabled, and has OCD with complex little rituals that have to be done before we leave the house. She will not be diverted, distracted or hurried. It drives me potty at times. It takes us 1.5 hours to get me and DDs 2 and 3 ready, and I don't have the sort of job I can be late at work for - people have appointments with me!

As I said I find being pretty tough works for my girls, they know the score and that it's non-negotiable.

Not finished breakfast because you've been fannying around? Tough, we have to go, you'll be hungry.

Not dressed because you've been fannying around? Tough, we have to go, you'll be in the playground in your jammies.

No shoes on because you wouldn't put them on/let me put them on when I asked? Tough, we have to go, you'll have to be carried to the car or walk in your socks.

I give them regular time checks eg 10 minutes to go, 5 minutes now so put your shoes on, 2 so put your coat on, 1 so grab bags and out the door, now we're going. So they know what needs doing when.

could you use a reward system each day? So a star for not throwing clothes, a star for calmly eating breakfast, a star for sitting in the car nicely, use a little portable star chart and draw symbols in each space, like some clothes, a car, a breakfast bowl. Then, instead of sweets as you dont really like that idea, why not go and buy a load of cheap party favours or similar (wilkos do a big bag of these very cheaply). Put them in a clear jar or whatever. Make sure there are two of everythning otherwise you will have tantrums when one gets what the other has!! If they get all their stars (just do two to start with so its acheivable and when they do that well, add another), they get to choose a present from the jar. If they undo their car straps or take off clothes once dressed, they dont get a star (you might have to pitch one against the other a little bit). You will get a massive tantrum the first few times one gets the present but the other doesnt, but after a while, you might find that that is an incentive for them both to behave. We recently did star charts after a spate of mostrous behavour, and it did work really well (mine are nearly five and nearly four).

other things that help:
clothes set out the night before.
you get ready first.
breakfast ends if they havent finished in a certain time.
bags by door/in car/on buggy the night before
no telly till everyone is dressed and washed.
move the time you are leaving ten minutes earlier ( I have even set the clock early!), that way, and aim to be out of the door by this time. That way it is much less stressful if one of the kids wees/has a paddy/fights you gettting in the car. you will be less rushy and stressed, then (maybe) they might be less stressed too.
go ridicul.ously over the top praising any type of good behavour!

GOOD LUCK! i feel your pain, I have really been there when mine were a bit younger...and still am sometimes now!