What do you think of Jugurtha?

[Bumbleconfusus]

What do you think of Jugurtha as a boy's name? It's listed on Mumsnet's Baby Name Finder.

This isn't really what do you think, I just wanted to say how annoyed I am at someone putting comments on the name Jugurtha like they have. I can't believe someone put nick name as 'piss face'. Does anyone know how I can report this to MNHQ so they can remove this remark which I think is completely unacceptable!

Incitement? You have gone to great lengths to see incitement in the vandalism of a stupid random troll. Ridiculous lengths, imo.

This is becoming bizarre.

In the spirit of heightened sensitivity that now seems to prevail, I am now going to call anyone who likes the name Jugurtha a racist yes a racist, and anti Catholic too, come to think of it because clearly you know nothing about the Irish language, or Irish history or culture if you continue to think or if you ever thought the name Jugurtha was in any way a suitable name to give a child. You are ignorant of Irish struggles and since ignorance is the same as racism, you are therefore racist -- hold on, I don't have to give a reasonable reason for crying racist, because it's only my feelings about whether something you say is racist that count. So if I say you are a racist, then you are a racist. The next step, I suppose, is to put my hands over my ears and retreat to nurse my extremely heightened feelings of offence.

Oh and yes, Nighbynight, let's dismiss the role of intellect while we're at it, because it's always helpful in any discussion to let pure subjectivity take over...

Someone who has gone to great lengths to comprehensively vandalise a baby name resource on a site which he has also taken the trouble to invade, and post rude, crude and inflammatory messages there, has A) way too much time on his hands, and B) a screw loose. Not necessarily a racist, or inciting racist bullying of all boys named Jugurtha, just a pathetic loser.

Nighbynight, using terms like 'furthermore' doesn't make an argument logical.

Whoah,Mathaxiety, teddy....pram...you know the rest....people don't like it when their comments are labelled as potentially racist, that is understandable...justifying a comment that is racist is natural, if you do not consider yourself to be racist.

Oh please do not call me names, however tempting the irony may be to you. I am not some tantrumming toddler.

I have not 'justified' a comment that was racist. I have asserted that some random troll thought he was being funny. I do not consider myself to be a racist. I am, however, a person who finds facts more persuasive than anything a fevered imagination can come up with by way of argument.

I'll continue to assert the ludicrousness of racism being exclusively in the eye of the beholder by continuing to label anyone liking the name Jugurtha a racist. A Famine memorial

Makes total sense mathanxiety....if you feel racism is ludicrous because of definition of the Race Relations Act then crack on. Fancy people having such a fevered imagination to think that piss taking of a cultural name was racist...silly them, of course it wasn't. You are absolutely right.

It's common sense actually.

If there is doubt you may offend someone with comments about heritage, culture, way of life, etc, that may differ from your own point of view, then yes, those comments may well be out of order and be deemed racist. People are naturally ethnocentric but it doesn't mean they are correct.

Scurrfunge, are you saying that the Berbers are famously obtuse? Or that they rub piss into their own faces?

Because you seem to think that saying something nasty or unpleasant about someone of a different race is inherently racist. It's really not.

bruxeur...did you read the initial comments that were posted about the name?

If you think pissface is a legitimate nickname when describing a particular culture then I fear you are misguided.

Making up unpleasant names about someone based on their cultural significance is racist....refer to the Race Relations Act if you are not convinced.

Dear god, it's catching.

Oh sweetest jesus, come and squeezus. No, I do not feel racism is ludicrous because of (the) definition in the Race Relations Act. Racism is anything but ludicrous. Your position wrt the troll on the BNF and alleged racism is what's ludicrous. And your ridiculous assertion of racism in this case serves only to trivialise something that is not trivial; it makes it comical and silly, like the scene in Monty Pythons Holy Grail -- "Help, help, I'm being oppressed!"

Every name is a 'cultural name' -- what a silly phrase.

There was absolutely no comment either in the troll's entry on the BNF or in any other poster's comments about heritage, culture or way of life. Absolutely none. That part you have manufactured out of thin air. I can't make head or tail of the rest of that paragraph of yours, but that particular assertion I have to refute on the grounds that you are making things up. You are putting words in the mouth of the troll that were never there.

And again, you assert that pissface was used as an alleged appropriate nickname for a particular culture, when you have absolutely no evidence that the troll even knows of the existence of the Berber people, let alone harbouring any racist feelings towards them (or desire to incite hatred towards young boys named Jugurtha).

What you're essentially saying is that if anyone is ever called pissface or something else that's rude and derogatory, then they are not only being personally insulted, but it's a case of racism too. Because everyone belongs to some racial or ethnic group -- yes even the English. And every name originated with some ethnic group.

I think its very naive to say that the troll didn't realise the name was not an English name per say.

Also I would say that the nickname was placed there with intent to insult etc. If I were to make fun the of the Irish famine and have the intent to insult it, then perhaps that would be prejudice. I would say though, that the name Jugurtha predates the famine by hundreds of years, so obviously wan't produced with the intent to insult/to mock/to make fun of etc.

I suppose we would know the answer to most of this discussion if we knew what other names were vandalised, but we don't.

How would some immature bored troll know the origins of Jugurtha? I lived in the uk for 15 years and never once heard the name. I know more about names than is typical anyway. I'm 40 so I've been around for a while now, I speak 2 languages, and have a smattering in three others so I'm not of an insular mindset and yet I was unaware of its origins. So to assume that some random troll must have known is the huge leap imo.

Your posts are so reasoned and intelligent Mathanxiety. I am sitting here nodding. JustineMumsnet knows that BNF is riddled with offensive comments. The vast majority of the sabotage is directed at names often used in Britain.

Bruxeur, lol at asking everybody in the World!

No-one knows the underlying intent of the troll.

He may have seen that the name was "not english" and/or labelled north african (which it is - so magaly he would not have had to have known the origin) and written piss-face in a racist way.

He may have just been arsing around and written random comments on random names.

I don't think that we can second-guess his motivations.

What is certain is that people who are familiar with this name who are from the area it comes from/close to people who are, are offended. And they surely they are entitled to have their own feelings about it.

If for eg I was on a website for a different country and all of the names had nice sensible comments, and then a very typically Ebglish name eg George had something written next to it like that I would be pretty . I mean, it's obviously not actually the nickname, is it. It's taking the piss.

I find it weird that people throughout the thread have been describing this as funny and harmless. TBH I think it is pretty nasty to deface any of the names on there, as (when happened with saskia) a parent comes across it, it causes upset.

I haven't seen anybody say it's funny or harmless. I understand that if Jugurtha was a name close to your heart the comments would sting, but to accuse everybody else (or a few people) on the thread who didn't see the same motivation into the troll's actions as racist, imo, that's really thoughtlessly knee-jerk at best and at worst really offensive.

Most of the first responses were saying it was funny and harmless (inoffensive)

I was a bit surprised TBH

Was it the same troll who placed "Abergavenny" as a girl's Welsh name?
And "Dr.Who" as an Old English name?
I can see the humour in those, (and don't see them as racist), but it rather looks as though the baby names area is a bit too easy to p*ss about with.

The point being made was that the piss taking about the name could be seen as racist.

It doesn't matter what the intention of the troll or anyone else was....it could be percieved as racist. Mathanxiety, do you get it now?

Noone is speaking for the troll (except perhaps you!)

No, for the life of me, I don't get it. You're asserting that you can read minds.

You're telling me that I am speaking for a troll. I'm speaking up for reason.

Just because the piss is taken about a name, doesn't mean the piss taker or the piss itself is racist. Ignorant -- absolutely. Rude? Crude? No argument. Racist? = crying wolf.

Don't worry about it anymore....you'll have to agree to differon this one.I just hope you are never a victim of any racism.

I just hope I never get to the point where I start imagining it.

Have at looks at Allport's scale of prejudice when you get a chance.

Sorry that should read...have a look at..

It's routine on baby name threads that sneery judgemental remarks are made around class and culture. Names deemed 'chav', with non-standard spellings, names from African countries, names popular in black families have all been hooted over. Sneery judgementalism is unattractive whether it be rooted in racism or snobbery - why argue the minutiae of whether it is racist or not?