How can I break a naming tradition?

[MollieS]

Hi everyone, can anybody help me with a predicament?...

My husband is Greek, though has lived in England for the past 15 years, where we now live together. We are trying for a baby and I'm feeling such anticipation over choosing a name - like anybody, naming my first child has been something I've thought about since I was little. However, there's a catch.

Traditionally, little Greeks are named after the grandparents on their father's side, a custom which seems to be nation-wide and not limited to how observant/family orientated you are. So, my husband's (non English speaking) parents expect our future son or daughter to be named after them. The trouble is that their names - Vasilios and Dorothea- seem very old-fashioned to me (I hope this doesn't offend anyone). I can't imagine calling my child either of these names, nor do I feel that these names would fit well into an English school and can't help but worry that my child would be teased by other children. The most I would be comfortable with is to use them as middle names.

My husband is sympathetic though currently as confused as I am over the situation. He feels a sense of obligation to his parents (made worse by the fact that he has chosen to settle in a country which is familiar to him but alien to them and also by the fact that I am not Greek, something they've never stated as being a problem but equally, something they had not anticipated). He says he could live with either of their names, but also likes other (Greek sounding) names that we've discussed that I also like and are similar to English names (Alexandra, Sophia etc).

Has anybody else been in a similar situation? I'd appreciate any advice - from Greek mums/partners or otherwise!

I like the response of ninedragons best of all.

Patriarchal shite!

I don't have anything to add on the should you/shouldn't you name after the grandparents debate, but thought you might be interested to know that I know a Vasilios who shortens it to Bill. He's an adult, but Billy would also work for a baby/little boy?

Despite patriarchal connotations, I still feel strongly that half of my child's heritage will be Greek and I would like him or her to feel proud of that and to be able to engage with it, linguistically, culturally and through experience etc despite being based in England. It is negotiating the the well meaning expectations of others when strong opinions and desires clash within this that makes striking the balance difficult as it must be for other 'multicultural' families. Sometimes being an in law/wife/mother in these set ups is more like working for the UN!

Intergalactic - Thank you, yes. My husband has often jovially talked of 'little Bill' when talking about a potential future son called Vasilios. Billy is quite sweet but I just can't get over personal prejudices!

I like Leo best! So glad that we have 9+ months to think about all of this!

My (Spanish) family tradition is to name ALL girls Maria, but use their middle name or both names linked to distinguish between them. This continued even when my family came to England and thus my first name is Maria. I love the link to my Spanish heritage, it is very important to me, but the whole being called by my middle name thing, and all the explanations that went with it, right through school, job interviews, any damn thing, is a complete PITA.

My DD is not called Maria (although my brother's DD is)and no fall-outs resulted - but I would say that had I wanted to continue the tradition, or had been considering it, I would not have been impressed if my DH had said 'HA HA HA no' TBH. Just a bit disrespectful?

The compromise suggestions are lovely.

"That may well be how things are done in Greek culture, but you are not Greek and your children will not be Greek.

Put it simply to them. The Greek way of doing things doesn't trump the English way of doing things."

What do you mean - the children will be half Greek?

Plus, on the flip side, why should the English way of doing things trump the Greek way?

Surely there is some middle ground, which is what most posters to this thread seem to be advocating.

And honestly - if my DH said 'ha ha ha no' to a tradition in my family, I'd think he was an unreasonable twunt. I wouldn't expect him to just fold and agree - but equally I wouldn't expect him to veto without a moment's consideration. What an odd way to work.

Sorry to sound intolerant but the pressure to conform to the imposition of this ancient and frankly primitive patriarchal system would gall me no end.

I value my individual freedom far too much. I'm proud that it's protected in this country and threads like these make me thankful all over again and remind me not to take my freedom for granted.

How about Basil or Theodora? (Although I love Vasilios/Vasily)

This is an Irish custom too, though dying out fast. The second child would be called after the mother's parents, 3rd and 4th etc., children after whoever got left out the other times until no more obligations were left, at which point the proud parents would be left to their own devices. An incentive to have a huge Irish family?

I don't see this kind of system as patriarchal. It's grandparent/family-orientated rather than just patriarchal. Some cultures place more importance on the idea of family heritage than others do.

Oi iklboo. My ds IS Isambard. What's wrong with it eh? .

OK, it's only his middle name really...

Agree that Dorothea's lovely - it's my mum & my grandma's name & I'd rather like to have it myself. Would've used it for one of the dds but mum hates it, especially as it was her mum's name too & she was the youngest. She always felt she didn't quite rate anyone bothering to think of a name for her.

If you like the names, I think I'd go with them. If not, use as middle names? Or alternatively, where I live it's v common to have an 'official' name (first on birth cert) but also a 'known as' name - eg. John David Smith, called after grandad John Smith but universally known as David.

Could you try that?

MollieS Congratulations on this forthcoming joy, I do hope all these naming concerns do not spoil it for you.

Although I sympathise with past traditions I really feel (personally) that you must chose with your DH what name(s) you will give your child. If together you are happy to include Greek family names or Greek names or English family names or English names, I would do so. As someone stated I would say that there is an English name and a Greek name. If you plan to live in an English speaking country it does seem logical that the name that will be more familiar in that place will be English sounding (and vice versa would apply).

I have several friends who are married to people from places with other languages /or live in places where other languages are spoken. They have chosen names which are suitable in both languages. By being encouraged to pick a specific name from one culture you are not being given this option and that does not seem fair to your little one, who may face years of having to spell/pronounce their name in the country they live in.

In terms of Christening, we chose to have our DD dedicated at the church we attend and we hope she will choose to be baptised for herself when she is older. We thought long and hard and prayed about this and we actually both ended up changing position! Initially, I wanted dedication, DH wanted baptism, then we switched! In the end we chose dedication so she can choose for herself but we will bring her up in a Christian home. It is a good idea to think about what you feel is right for you as a family.

All the best, apologies for long post!

This tradition is not patriarchal per se - after all, if it is a girl, she would be named for her grandmother.

As has already been mentioned, some cultures are more family orientated (if not 'bound' by tradition) than others. It is very easy for people who marry someone from their own country to thrown their hands up in disgust at such a situation. But when you are married to someone from another culture (or even just another country with a similar culture), there will inevitably be different ways of doing things and compromise is the order of the day. Can't quite believe that needs spelling out, but there you go...

Not one person contributing to this thread has suggested the OP just roll over and accept it. Everyone is throwing suggestions into the ring as to how to work both Greek and English traditions into the child's name. What is wrong with that?

And of course, one option is to ride roughshod over the PILs wishes - but only the most contrary bugger would think that was really a long-term solution. Likewise, if the PILs honestly think their wishes override the parents, then they are being unreasonable.

Thanks everyone for your lively conversation. It is great to hear so many different views and stories from you all. Also nice to hear that so many people seem to like the name Dorothea...Even if it only becomes a middle name! Hearing such resoundingly positive reinforcement from you modern mums has got me seeing it in a different light.

The problem with bestowing a Greek name and an English name is that many, many names taken for granted in England (Anthony, Alexandra, Christopher, George, Zoe to name just a few) are in fact of Greek origin. As I've said before, I love Leo (which could be the Greek Leonidas) and Alexa...Neither really solve the problem as Greeks consider these names as normal and 'Greek' as we do 'English'

Just found out that DH's parents are coming over for 10 days quite soon. I'm going to get him to broach it with them then (my Greek isn't fluent enough yet, getting there!).

Does anyone like the name Hector? Or is that just mean?

Dottie short for Dorathea is beautiful too!!

I know of a Hector, his brother is Casper. Brave names but not bad.