How can I break a naming tradition?

[MollieS]

Hi everyone, can anybody help me with a predicament?...

My husband is Greek, though has lived in England for the past 15 years, where we now live together. We are trying for a baby and I'm feeling such anticipation over choosing a name - like anybody, naming my first child has been something I've thought about since I was little. However, there's a catch.

Traditionally, little Greeks are named after the grandparents on their father's side, a custom which seems to be nation-wide and not limited to how observant/family orientated you are. So, my husband's (non English speaking) parents expect our future son or daughter to be named after them. The trouble is that their names - Vasilios and Dorothea- seem very old-fashioned to me (I hope this doesn't offend anyone). I can't imagine calling my child either of these names, nor do I feel that these names would fit well into an English school and can't help but worry that my child would be teased by other children. The most I would be comfortable with is to use them as middle names.

My husband is sympathetic though currently as confused as I am over the situation. He feels a sense of obligation to his parents (made worse by the fact that he has chosen to settle in a country which is familiar to him but alien to them and also by the fact that I am not Greek, something they've never stated as being a problem but equally, something they had not anticipated). He says he could live with either of their names, but also likes other (Greek sounding) names that we've discussed that I also like and are similar to English names (Alexandra, Sophia etc).

Has anybody else been in a similar situation? I'd appreciate any advice - from Greek mums/partners or otherwise!

[beanlet]

Leo is great as a nn for Vasilios. Dorothea also has lovely nns other than Thea (which I also really like) -- Dottie and Dolly. I'd go with the grandparents' names, then call them by nicknames. Either that, or grandparents' names first, and the names you will actually use as second names! Ticks all the boxes; family harmony retained.

[IngridFletcher]

Dorothea is lovely. Lots of nickname possibilites. Dotty is very cute while they are small.

[MollieS]

Yes peasandbeans, I believe that Vasilios is the Greek version of Basil. That is what DH says. I've also read that it is the Greek version of William and had considered that as a suggestion too...but I just don't feel it.

[LilQueenie]

Its your child you should be able to choose the name. I thought there might a problem with names as OH has a family name but we arent using it. In fact the first name he chose was MY Dads name not his dads. Suits me as I always wanted that name anyway. If you chose a name to suit the family then its not really your choice. I would pick a name you and your OH like.

[bruffin]

I am half cypriot and named the anglican version of my greek cypriot grandmother's name (Christine/Christalla)

My welsh grandmother's name is Dorothy and my greek nan wanted my youngest sister to be named after her. Apparently Theodora was acceptable as a version of Dorothy. She was called Melanie instead

I would go with having the name as a middle name.

We all have names that are anglified versions of greek names.

[SE13Mummy]

Have a look on nameberry - you can look up names by origin or meaning etc. so perhaps you could see if there are any other names with the same meanings that you like?

FWIW I don't think a Vasilios would be ridiculed at school; I've taught children called Ainus (pr. anus!) and Gniple (pr. nipple) and they've not been teased any more than anyone else.

[Quattrocento]

I think you have to live with their first names being their grandparents.

From what I know about Greek families (cousin married to a Greek chap and had exactly the same issue - so couldn't not post) it would cause absolutely massive offence. And being Greek, the fall-outs are tremendous and titanic.

For example - cousin managed to cause a massive rift by failing to deliver sugared almonds to an uncle on the day of the wedding. Much drama.

But seriously, you simply can't not have those names. Can't you have an English middle name and call them by their English middle names?

[BridesheadRegardless]

Lots of good suggestions for getting around it.

But just to say, Dorothea is gorgeous, and a name I've seena few ties on baby name threads recently so would not to regarded as weirdy. It fits the old fasioned names witha hint of class revival thats been goung on for awhile.

Vasilios not so easy, but perefectly fine, and Leo is a great name.

[cory]

If going by Quattro's suggestion (which seems a good one to me), you would of course have to accept the risk that your dcs might actually decide they like being called Vassilios or Dorothea, because those names are cool. I very conscientiously started calling dd by an English version of her name, to make her transition into the outside world easier. 13 years later, and we are the only people who actually use this English name.

[jollydiane]

Welcome to world of the grown ups. In this world you no longer have to do what you mum and dad want or your in-laws want you to do. It is your child your rules. Start as you mean to go on. Harsh but once the DC is born they will be in love with it and (should) forget this. What happens when it is the tradition that XYZ rule has to be followed?

and breathe.

[jollydiane]

and yes I did break a naming tradition but lived to tell the tale.

[MollieS]

Picking up on what jollydiane says above about xyz traditions (and at the risk of sounding like I really conflict with my ILs - this isn't actually the case day to day!)....

What do people think about the 'to christen' or 'not to christen' situation? Similar to the naming conundrum is the fact that I'd be happier NOT to christen my children, whereas again, the traditional and expected thing to do according the dh's parents would be to christen. He is agnostic (read apathetic), I'm an athiest and his parents are Greek Orthodox. I don't object to celebrating festivals such as Easter with them. Indeed, I enjoy seeing their pleasure at the ritual of it and enjoy the atmosphere and bustle of it all despite the religious connotations that do not feature for me (the sights, smells and sounds of a Greek Orthodox church at Easter are certainly something to behold!). They know that I do not share their beliefs but appreciate this kind of participation. That is something I am more than prepared to uphold.

In this case, does it seem unreasonable to want to hold off christening my child?

This type of move is something I'd prefer for the child to choose for themselves when the time comes and when he or she will be old enough to engage in (simplistic or otherwise) conversations about God etc. Yes I'd prefer my baby to grow up believing in scientific evidence and evolution, and yes that might sway him or her one way or another, but I'd never outlaw a religious interest if it arose, Christian, Hindu, Islamic, Buddhist or other. This is why I feel it to be unfair to jump the gun and insist on a christening.
Whilst I know that at the end of the day it will be just one day in my baby's life that will not automatically lead to a life of unchosen religiosity, it goes against the grain.

What should I do?

NB for those who haven't read earlier posts - this isn't an urgent enquiry - dh and I are still trying for said baby as opposed to having to make any snap naming/christening decisions!

[bronze]

My mum is another known by her middle name

Even on cheques it says (example) N. Lucy Bloggs

I have never heard anyone call her her first name. Very rarely they have called her Nicola Lucy

but never just the first name

[welshdeb]

When my dad was born - he is 82 this year. His grandfather was the registrar. He didn't like the names my gps chose so inserted one he liked as his first name. He did the same for my aunt. So my dad instead of being frank gerald surname was named David Frank gerald surname. Neither my dad or his sister have never been known by these names and he has always been known as frank all his life.

[Spidermama]

I'd tell him in England you are free to call the baby exactly what you like and are no hidebound by these traditions which are thrust upon people in other countries.

Job done.

[SE13Mummy]

re: the christening, personally I think there's no point in having a child christened if it's not part of what you believe in/want for your child. I have friends who've held naming ceremonies as a way of formally marking a child's birth and have been to many a thanksgiving service at church for babies whose parents would prefer them to make up their own minds in the future but wanted their child to be formally welcomed into the church family.

You need to do what you and your partner believe is right for your child within your family.

[EightiesChick]

Sounds like it would be much easier if you had a daughter (not that you can do anything about that! ) as Dorothea is lovely, shortens nicely to Thea and works across the two cultures. Vassilios is trickier but Leo would be nice.

If you went the route of using the middle name day to day, would the ILs be offended later when they realise that little Vassilios isn't actually called that by anyone other than them? Or would it be OK because the tradition has been observed even if the spirit of it isn't being applied? Just asking because in that case, you might as well face the music and give them your own choice of name as first name. If they would be fine with Vassilios actually being called Gordon (for instance )at school and so on, then it makes the giving in option a bit more appealing.

What happens (sorry, no knowledge of Greek culture) if you have a second child of the same gender and have already done this? Do they have to be Dorothea I and Dorothea II or what??

[EightiesChick]

Christening - I would say go along with this, personally. The child will make their own mind up anyway when they're older so all it has to represent, if you're not minded that way, is a ceremony to celebrate their naming with your loved ones. It is just one day, which makes a concession more tolerable than one that'll affect their lives longer-term.

[LoveJules3]

EightiesChick, Greek culture dictates that the eldest child of both sexes be named after their grandparents: Male to father's father, Female to mother's mother, or at least that's how my Greek-Cypriot friends explained it to me! However they named their first and only child Louisa after Father's dad Louis. Went down fine with all involved! Any subsequent children can be named whatever you like.

[bruffin]

I think it's only the first child that is named after the grandparents.

I was christened Greek Orthodox, my mum was CofE. The Greek orthodox church was a quite a journey away so my nan used to take us only occassionally, but we never really understood it and in my later life I have been more drawn to Cof E than anything else.

[MollieS]

Regarding the naming tradition, in Greek culture, it is the first son's children that should be named after the grandparents. The first boy is named after his father's father and the first girl is named after her father's mother. That way if you have 2 children of the same sex then only the first is named for his/her grandfather/mother and the same. In turn, the first of those two (male) children to have children themselves must name their child after the subsequent generation of grandparents. In the case of girls, her children will be named after her husband's parents.

Since dh is the only boy out of his siblings, we have the predicament!

Phew! Hope that makes sense!

[CuppaTeaJanice]

Don't call it a middle name, as that makes it sound less important. Call it his/her Greek name.

My friends did this with their son. He has his first name, which my friends chose, and then he has his Chinese name to honour that side of the family. Both equally important, although nobody can ever remember what his Chinese name is!!!

[ninedragons]

You're a more tactful woman than me - my response to anyone expecting me to name my child after them as a matter of course would have been (and I quote) "HA! HA! HA! No."

That may well be how things are done in Greek culture, but you are not Greek and your children will not be Greek.

Put it simply to them. The Greek way of doing things doesn't trump the English way of doing things. And then name your child whatever you want. It really is your prerogative and you will resent them forever if you are forced to give your child a name you dislike.

[Iklboo]

DH's granparents on his dad's side tried this - 'you've got to give him one of the family names as a middle name, either your grandad or your dad. It's only right'

Oh dear. Fortunately DH is of the same mind as me and we gently told them that, as he was OUR son, we'd call him what we liked.

Then wound them up for most of the pregnancy by saying we were going to call DS 'Isambard'

[bruffin]

"That may well be how things are done in Greek culture, but you are not Greek and your children will not be Greek."

Part of their culture will be greek! I have very little to do with any of my greek relatives now but it is still half my heritage and a quarter of my children's heritage.