What about all those American girls names that sound like boys names, place names or surnames?

[Gunnerbean]

Things like Tyler, Taylor, Ashley, Ashton, Scout, Bristol, Atlanta, Harlow, Finley, Harper etc to name but a few.

They seem to be very big on it over there but it doesn't really seem to have caught on to such an extent over here yet. But I suppose it will eventually.

What do you think? I think some can sound OK but others - I mean Bristol is pushing it a bit surely?

Ugh! The exchange between Expat and Saltire is exactly what I'm talking about! I'm not surprised you've gotten the backs up of people on Babycenter, Expat. To be honest, I'd rather be blissfully "ignorant" and unknowing of the intricacies of Scottish names than be subject to your belittling! The people you speak of are not being malicious in their ignorance, they're just a bit naive - and I don't see how that deserves such ridicule.

My family is Italian-American with very strong ties to its history and heritage and lots of Italian customs in place. And, yes, if you go to Italy you will see lots of them carried out there as well. Cultures get diluted when people immigrate and all sorts of things, including names become adapted. What is so wrong with that!?!?!?

And as for whoever mentioned Halloween - the thing about American traditions/customs that get brought over here - they get diluted just as much as those headed in the opposite direction. So I'm not sure it's so much of an Americanization of the culture over here as an amalgamation or even Britishization (is that a word?!?! ) of imported American culture.

I think the habit of dressing up on 31st October and going around your neighbours is called "guising" and it isn't originally American. It's Scottish. Only you have to actually do something more than bang on the door and threaten to flour bomb the place. They expect you to come in and entertain them.

"Trick or treat" is America pinching a British custom, not the other way round.

I'm Irish and I was the one who mentioned guising. We used to do that when I was little. In one generation it's been entirely replaced by the same Hallowe'en celebrated (if that's the right word) in America. Trick or treat wasn't what we were doing. We had to perform. Sing, dance, tell a joke! Plus, we could dress up as anything, not just something scary.

Centuries ago British customs went to the states, but now I think the flow is pretty much one way (coming towards us!). I don't know how any aspect of British culture has made a big enough impact on an American aspect of life to change the way they used to do things to our way of doing things.

I don't want to be accused of being anti-American. I like America, I like Americans (the ones I know) but I think this one-way flow is like osmosis. One way culture flow.

NObody's fault but an inevitable consequence of the US movie industry exporting movies and tv shows so on. The fact that their population is 5 times the size of ours is a factor too!

I think expat is v funny actually.

Sorry Jester, I didn't notice you mentioned guising already. Yes, as you say, we had to do something. We weren't ready for that our first Halloween in Scotland.

The Halloween I've seen since I've been here (5 years) is VERY different from how we celebrate in the States. You don't have to dress up as something scary - I think I was a cheerleader for about 3 years running as a kid!

I think Brit culture is infiltrating the states more than you realize. Currently there is A LOT of American TV that has been directly pinched from the UK - and lots of my American friends seem to be using British expletetives too! Yes, it does tend to get Americanized (ie, the TV shows are usually not direct imports, but American adaptations) but the point I was making was that the same is true for the other direction. Things that are taken from the States do have a British spin on them as well.

A cheerleader for Halloween

Incredible now that I think about it. We used to go trick or treating and some houses were 'haunted houses' where they would decorate the house with goblins and witches in almost complete darkness.

And we'd go in to get our trick or treat candy after roaming through a stranger's house!

OK, it was a 'nice' neighborhood, but still...

oh, and Edam - in America, Brynn IS a girls' name, so I'm not sure why it's so disrespectful to say (as I did on the other thread) "I like the name, but I think of it as a girls' name"

Podrick - I think it's a bit of a stretch to say most American's don't know that London is in England... Yes, many have all sorts of geographical hang ups, but I think if you went over and did a poll, you'd be mistaken.

I'm sitting here at work giggling away. As an American, I am fully aware of the anti-American bias. It's certainly not that I don't care, but more of "what can I do about it?" I'm pretty hard to offend, though, and I think a lot of it is funny. And Podrick, I've never known any grownup who did not know where London was! I was talking to an English guy that my husband works with, and he was shocked that I knew who the prime minister was. FGS, I read the newspaper, of course I know! Most of the people my age are much more interested in being global citizens than the generations before us. We don't have that "We're America, goddammit, and we can do what we want" mentality.

As for the original question, I think the person who talked about the importance of family names is on target, but most of the Carters, Parkers, etc, haven't ever had anyone in their families with that name. I do have a friend who wants to name her first son Clark, which is her maiden name.

"Ugh! The exchange between Expat and Saltire is exactly what I'm talking about! I'm not surprised you've gotten the backs up of people on Babycenter, Expat. To be honest, I'd rather be blissfully "ignorant" and unknowing of the intricacies of Scottish names than be subject to your belittling! The people you speak of are not being malicious in their ignorance, they're just a bit naive - and I don't see how that deserves such ridicule"

Well Tampons, if I was unsure of how a name was pronounced,or spelt I would make the effort to fine out, regardless of how naive I may be. I also wouldn't call my child a name "becasue it was Scots/Irish/Hebrew/ whatever without finding out more about it.

Yes, but names change, and how it's pronounced changes also depending on the country.

So what.

I have a cousin Xavier, and Spanish people pronounce it Javier, the French a different way, and the English another way. My own first name has a range of pronounciations and spellings.

I think the whole, Carter, Clark etc, was sparked by people naming their children surnames, or last names to keep family ties. Some of my cousins have a family name as their middle name.

Life and names evolve.

Yes, lastbox, and people getting all het up and 'I'm offended' is a lot of the reason I left the US for good.

I can't stand nippy folks.

Because their ernestness is very, very boring and even winding them up becomes not worth the smidgeon of effort it takes to get them going.

What is wrong with being AMERICAN?

Why does it have to be prefixed by some other nationality? It's its own nationality.

Get over it, people.

To be very honest regarding expat's comment. Most Americans are very interested in their heritage. Most families are immigrants from around the world and they seem to want to embrace the culture that they are originally from. It's not very fun to say "I'm American" America is such a new country-compared to places like Germany, England, etc. that you want to let others know where your family traveled from, so you tend to embrace it.

I know from an European pov: it must look ridiculous since they don't have a parent from that country, weren't born in the country, or whatever. It may look dumb to others but just let em talk about it. It's an American thing to feel proud to think that you have a family name from another country. Most Americans won't even leave America to that effect.

'they're just a bit naive - and I don't see how that deserves such ridicule.'

Everyone deserves to have the piss ripped out of them from time to time. It's edifying .

agree with Saltire - if you want a Scottish name, do a bit of research and choose a name that is, in fact, Scottish

I have an American friend who called her daughter Mackenzie "because I wanted her to have an Irish name"

When i said it was a Scottish name, not Irish, she said "What do you know about Irish names". Not much, but I am Scottish.

You can be interested in your heritage without subjugating your own nationality to some other country's.

My father's parents were Mexican. But he considers himself American, because, well, that's what he is.

He loves Mexican culture, speaks Spanish as a native speaker, listens to Mexican radio, watches Mexican TV.

But he's American.

It's not just a Scottish name, Gorgon, it's a clan name .

Was MIL's maiden name, too . She's definitely very Scottish.

Agree Expat, my Grandfather was born to Scottish aprents in South Africa. he considered himself a south african first and a scot second. I don't however consider myself South African just because he was born there and it's my heritage

There's nothing wrong with being AMERICAN - and mostly when I'm outside of the US I do refer to myself as Amercian. But you have to remember that the US started out as a melting pot and calling oneself Italian, German, Irish - American was a way to define oneself and set themselves apart as the one's who have pasta on Sunday as opposed to the ones who have a roast, etc. It's a kind of an explanation, a "this is why we do what we do"... A lot of immigrants came to the US in search of a better life, but that didn't mean they were willing to give up the way of life that they were used to - it was all they knew. So they made sure their children carried on with their original cultures.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do, Expat - and maybe if I had been here as long as you I might be as frustrated, but I prefer to talk to people on both sides about the other than to dismiss them or call them stupid, naff, whatever. Personally, I've not encountered the "nippiness" - most I know Americans are pretty open-minded about learning about the differences.

Okay, so I think that my post just came across differently than how I wanted it to...

I don't think people actually subjugate their nationality to another county's. I think they taking it more from a family history point of view. maybe with some being complete idiots and thinking they are, in fact from another country. but most just like to compare where their families (very very distant families) have come from. I agree with saltire and with gorgons in that people should actually research the background of names if they're going to start telling others where the name supposedly came from, because that is the time that you're going to look like a dumbass.

Yes, a lot of clan surnames seem to be getting used more and more by "non -Scots" as first names now as well.

Also, if people start changing the spelling, or giving girls boy's names (Logan, ryan spring to mind) or vice versa, or claiming a name is Irish when it is in fact Scots, then in a couple of generations those names are going to lose their cultural background. Eilidh will become Aylee, and lose the fact that it is Gaelic for Helen, McKenzie stops becoming a clan name with a historical background etc

Likewise, I'm actually sorry when I hear Americans watering down their nationality with someone else's.

So what if it was founded by immigrants? Doesn't make it any less of a nation in its own right and that alone being something to be proud of.

And yes, my father's parents were Mexican and my mother's mother was French. So I can't be proud of my heritage without spelling it out to all and sundry when frankly, if people care, they'll usually ask?

Plenty of African nations were formed by other nations, but you don't hear them saying, 'I'm Belgian Congolese,' or 'I'm one-one hundredth Dutch Zimbabwean and two-three-thousands Basque and . . . '

Many Americans are very easily wound up and touchy over relatively trivial matters in the grand scheme of things and have difficulty discerning when someone's taking the piss or having a laugh.

I mean, just read your posts

very well put lastboxoftampons.
expat can see why you've moved out of the states. very sorry to see that you really can't stand most Americans. Wish you wouldn't hate on them on MN though.

I agree expatt, Mackenzie is definitely a clan name - and a very nice one. I was just amused that this person insisted it was Irish to me. Not sure where she got that notion.

Going back to the OP's comment about names sounding like surnames, using surnames as first names - especially for boys - has been a very Scottish habit for years, not just American habit. Grant, Fraser, Craig, Murray, Campbell etc are all interchangable first and surnames.