What about all those American girls names that sound like boys names, place names or surnames?

[Gunnerbean]

Things like Tyler, Taylor, Ashley, Ashton, Scout, Bristol, Atlanta, Harlow, Finley, Harper etc to name but a few.

They seem to be very big on it over there but it doesn't really seem to have caught on to such an extent over here yet. But I suppose it will eventually.

What do you think? I think some can sound OK but others - I mean Bristol is pushing it a bit surely?

Merrylegs, that fits with my etymological observations over the last 5-8 yrs.

Lastboxoftampons, I appreciate that you're American yourself but what we're saying isn't the same as saying that all Americans, eg, Americans of Irish/American/Polish descent aren't proud of their own heritages... It's more subtle than that.

Sur namey names have become mainstream in the US. Why is that? That's where you have to look for answers using the history of America as your answer.

Over here, a quintessentially upper class name would be Octavia or Hugo. Names that would be 'bully me please' names in the US.

People are the same the world over and I think that sometimes, the same type of people who on this side of the world would choose Julius or Augustus etc would, if they'd been brought up in the USA be more receptive to those WASPY flavoured names.

I'm not saying that they would be trying to cover up their actual heritage.

It's not xenophobia is it, to be interested in the differences and to look for the reasons behind those differences!! I think to be so interested in the differences shows a respect for another culture. On American boards, I've read, "yeah well I don't care if that means something rude in the UK". Now that would be an insular or xenophic sentiment. To care about what the Americans are doing, their trends, their motivations etc, that's surely not xenophobic... I'm not British btw.

I suspect, as the most powerful nation on the planet, Americans can stand up to a little xenophobia... and actually I don't think finding American names odd is xenophobia, it's just different to the way most of us do things, given this is a British site. And difference is interesting. Otherwise we'd all be called Jane Smith.

I don't think that attitude is Mumsnet specific MadamDeathstare, it is often implicit in RL in the UK IMO

I've never watched madmen. Google CK Evans and names. This guy is a genius. He's a psychologist and his hobby if you like is etymology. I really respect him. He's the guy I once quoted on this board as predicted that all names ending in ley would be considered girls' names within 50 yrs. I am really interested in his observations.

(He's an AMerican btw).

MDS - not from me. Im a complete America-ophile [or something like that]. Totally love the place and the people. I hate ignorant off hand comments about the alleged lack of humour or ignorance of Americans. It is utter nonsense and makes me feel ashamed.

I'm American/British and I think all those girls names are ridiculous, naff and stupid.

I'm not offended when people point that out because I agree with them. Americans in general, however, can be a very touchy lot, quick to pull up the, 'I'm offended' line.

You should hear the names they think are Scottish, because for some reason many love saying they're Scottish when, um, they're NOT.

And the names are something no Scottish person would ever name their kid except if maybe they are using drugs.

Excellent! I love a heated debate.

As I alerted in my sweeping generalization, I was really commenting on choice of 'surnames' for first names as chosen by the WASPY population of the US, many of my family included - (and as a caveat, mainly East Coast)not the diverse population of US as a whole.

And wasn't commenting on 'good' or 'bad', just trying to explain why it might be so...

Poppy and Alfie were examples of what might be termed 'out there' or 'literary' from a US POV.

(I am not English, btw. Am North American but not States, and born of non-English European parents.)

And yes, I do think parts of US are very 50s, from the furniture to architecture, to vehicles, to infrastructure...

Nowt wrong with that.

Time for this again

It's always the first time someone has seen it...

so, i'm probably going to kill this thread like i've done to three others today but here goes...

i have noticed some of the names here in the uk to be very different than the ones in the us. i have some friends in the states who have named their babies riley (boy) sawyer (boy) preston (boy) and brielle (girl). personally i like more traditional names and am not really a fan of any of these ones... but i suppose it's just what's trendy over there atm.

here i've got friends who've names their dc very old-fashioned names like holly, joseph, thomas and stanley. nothing wrong with them... just what's popular on this side of the pond.

the op does seem a bit judgmental tbh. seems to be a common theme in MN to call something "american" and imply it's so below all things british. thankfully in RL this has not been the case and the brits that i've met have been very sweet and more curious about american things than anything else.

Merrylegs & Jester - with regard to surnames as first names, I think it's probably much simpler than Americans seeking a return to the idyllic 50's! I'm not sure who the first Madison or Harrison was - and it makes sense that he/she might've been named in reverence of past presidents, etc. But I think people continue to name their children them because they simply like the way they sound. There are tons of reasons why names have evolved over the centuries - the information age and more channels of communication across wider expanses have had a great influence. As travel has become easier people are being introduced to different cultures with different names that they often adapt and use for themselves. There are more and more interracial and international relationships producing children of all sorts of different backgrounds. And then there's just people using all sorts of things as inspiration (ie Nevaeh = Heaven spelled backwards, etc). So, I'm not particularly convinced by the WASP/1950's idyll theories.

I think there IS a lot of 'Oh, those silly Americans' on this board. And Jester, I can appreciate your interest in the differences between cultures - I just get annoyed when people (and I'm not saying you) seek out those differences and dismiss a culture based on them. At best, it seems very hypocritical.

I haven't been around this board long enough to notice any 'anti-Americanism' But but but am confused.

Who is "seek(ing) out those differences and dismiss(ing) a culture based on them"

Where are the "ignorant off hand comments about the alleged lack of humour or ignorance of Americans."

Who has "snee(red) at another culture and laugh(ed) at the silly Americans?"

We have lots of articulate and interesting American posters on this thread. What are your opinions of the differences in names?

Or would you just prefer to cry 'anti-American!" and leave it at that?

Merrylegs - perhaps you should do a search for posts containing "American" on the Babynames board. You will find lots of comments that are dismissive and even sometimes malicious. I'm often surprised by just how sneering they can be, especially considering we're all here discussing what to name a child! Personally, I don't think the original poster's comments were intended that way, but I do think some of the subsequent posts were at the very least poking fun. And I don't necessarily find anything wrong with that - I think it crosses the line when people say things along the lines of Americans are stupid because they name their children XYZ (and believe me, I've seen that on here!)

I think I've given my opinions on the differences of names. There are lots of British names that I think are really very nice (in fact, we're likely to name this little boy a British name) and there are American names that I don't really care for. That's my personal opinion and I don't think I've ever "cried anti-Americanism". But I respect every parent's right to name their child whatever they wish and I don't base my opinion of their character on what they've chosen. What I really don't agree with is people saying you can't possibly name your child based on something in particular - ie you can't name your child a Scottish name or a Spanish name, etc if you're not Scottish, Spanish or whatever yourself (I even find my DH is guilty of this!). Truthfully I never encountered that in the US and it's become a huge pet peeve since I moved here and started to think about naming my children.

Yep - point taken Last Box - I saw you had proffered an opinion. Didn't realize you were American.

Haven't spotted any of those 'stupid American posts'. Ouch.

Tell you what I have noticed on baby name threads though, - lots of 'chav-calling'.

Expat - so ne Eilidh or Ewan then? What sort of names do they think are scottish, because I have noticed a lot of American children (boys and girls ) given Scottish surnams as first names - Grant, Kennedy, Cameron, Maxwell,Elliot, Lamont to name but a few

I won't try and change your mind LBOT!! It is just a theory afterall.

I am drawn to names like Nancy, Greg, Richie etc, names that seem to conjure up an image of white picket fences, no crime, the excitement of space exploration. That's just a personal thing. But I can well understand that many people are drawn to an era and feel comfortable with it.

I for one think Americans are entitled to have their own cultural references and history and if that shapes their choices and makes their choices slightly different from ours that is entirely natural.

HOWEVER, the vast majority of Americans are choosing the same(ish) names as the vast majority of British people, so I'm really talking about the choices that occur to people who are trying to be a little different. Definitely not trying to categorise all Americans or all British.

Well...I'm American, and I think that there is, sometimes, the desire to appear "WASP-y". A little boy in a preschool class I taught had "Parker" for a middle name. His brothers' middle names were in the same vein (Carter and something else, I don't recall), and their mother actually told me that she'd given them the names to appear "hoity-toity." What's amusing is that the "old money" US families are now giving their children names like Agnes and Margaret. I think there definitely is a cultural aspect to it, but most of the people I know choose older names for their kids. My son is Samuel Robert, and our other two choices were Thomas and William. Whoever said that Octavia and Hugo are names that would get someone beaten up, I hope not! I want to use Hugo at some point; I think it's lovely. Also I've known three or four Octavias. And yes, edam, we can stand up to a little xenophobia, if that's what this is. I haven't seen anything I was offended by (as an American) on mumsnet yet. I do think the gender thing is amusing, though. A Welsh friend was visiting us and I mentioned that my parents had almost named me Brynn. He was horrified and said "That's a lad's name!" Here it isn't, but it does sound a bit masculine when you think about it. Oh and also I think Poppy is adorable and would love to use it, but DH is flatly refusing.

Saltire, true, when I was on the name boards on babycenter and I offered up my genuinely gaelic suggestions they were roundly mocked. I was told 'Lorcan' sounded like Vulcan. But yet, Finley was ok for a girl!! And Rory! I wouldn't have said anything but comments like "we're calling our daughter Rory because we're Irish" made me feel the need to put forward a British (well, geographically speaking) perspective.

Names that would be 'new' and fresh in the US such as Diarmuid, Tadhg, Oisin, Clodagh, Orla etc... they don't fit the McIrish template. Aidan, Keegan, Logan etc..

This isn't a criticism of Americans btw. We have people in this half of the World who make choices which are pushing back the boundaries of what previous generations considered normal. This is the evolution of names. It's not a criticism of anybody.

We'll have to agree to disagree Jester And I do think you're right - there's a plethora of Jack's, Lily's, Grace's and Alex's on both sides of the pond at the moment!

my brother and sil (bil english sil american, living in US) just called dd Raya Eliana, not heard that one before, and not what i assumed they were going to call her considering their original choices, to me this sounds more of and english name at the moment.

SamsMama - I just posted on the Brynn or Elijah thread that I thought of Brynn as a girls' name I did think for a minute - this is not going to go down well!

At the expensive of prolonging this debate, I agree with lastbox and others about the repeated and implicit criticism whenever a name is mentioned as "American" on Mumsnet. The poster will usually say "I don't like the name. It is too American" and leave it at that. And there was a clear shudder in this thread at the thought of American names being used in the UK.

But, like someone said, it is not just mumsnet it is the whole country. Even correspondents on the BBC seem to think saying something is "American" is a sufficient criticism without further elaboration. Most odd.

Heh, and the generalisations about American culture make me laugh. I think it would have to be one of the hardest countries to generalise about: 300 million people, 50 states, and thousands of different cultures all within one country.

I guess it just comes down to that fact that although I am not American I love the country and have met so many amazing Americans. It makes me extremely frustrated to see the country and its people casually derided on a regular basis in the UK.

samsmama that's just what I was told! And I think Hugo is lovely.

The CK Evans prof/writer I refered to earlier, there's not much I could tell him!, but about 7 yrs ago when I was prg with dc1 I had the name Bruno in mind. This CK Evans spotted that as being a little different to names on the board, and asked me where I was from etc.... At that time, Americans were not choosing names ending in 'o' (excluding latin/spanish people).

Place names were a trend we discussed and he predicted 'Oslo' would crop up on somebody's list soon enough as it encompassed two trends!!! sure enough,,,,,,,,,,, a week or two later, there it was. And it cropped up a few times.