Spelling of an Irish name

[HRSC]

I am due to have my first baby (girl) in August. My husband is Irish and I am British and we live in Portugal (which is where I grew up and where the majority of my family lives).

We have decided to give the baby an Irish name and now we are discussing the spelling of the name. The name we’ve chosen in Niamh which is easy to say in Portuguese but is going to be minefield for anyone to try and read (or spell!).

Do we stick with the traditional Irish spelling and she has an issue whenever anyone tries to read or spell her name or do we go for a different spelling which can be read much more easily by non English speaking people? (Like Neve or Nieve etc)

We are not likely to ever move to Ireland, most likely we will stay in Portugal so this will be something that she will have to deal with for her whole life.

What are your opinions on this? My husband and I can’t decide.

*I have a name that Portuguese people struggle to read and it is a pain when I’m booking a restaurant or at at doctors appointments etc so I often just give my middle name which is more translatable when booking restaurants etc)

I imagine you'll have seen this, OP, but just in case you haven't: https://mixedname.com/irish_portuguese_names

@Piggywaspushed , To be honest, I think Caitlin has become such a commonplace name that the new pronunciation is normalised and we have lost Kathleen as an equivalent name..

I think that the normalised pronunciations/spellings of names from other languages usually ruin the names. Someone mentioned Nia upthread - it's a pretty name but the Nee-uh and Nigh-uh pronunciations aren't.
I'll defend the anglicised pronunciation of Richard though - it's been around for centuries.

Maybe because the actress Neve Campbell pronounces her name Nev (and she's the only person I know of with this name).

@knitpicky , many of the names on that list aren't really Irish or Portuguese

I'd go with Niamh.

In England this won't cause any issues at all as it was popular there too.

In Portugal Neve and Nieve won't help you, because these still wouldn't be pronounced correctly.

Just give her an easier middle name and she can use that for minor daily things like making restaurant reservations.

Even Saoirse has at least two accepted ways to pronounce which Irish people have been known to argue over.

That’s down to accent. The variation is in the vowel sounds and it’s common for vowel sounds to vary between different accents.

Niamh can’t be Neev/ Neve though, because the latter has one syllable and the former… doesn’t.

It’s like saying that Brian is pronounced Brine.

Caitriona and Caitlín are pronounced differently in some parts of Northern Ireland and in Scotland to how they are pronounced in other parts further South (diplomatic).
Honestly you all need to lighten up and stop being so professionally offended about pronunciation of Irish names.
I see the OP hasn’t returned- you’ve probably put her off giving her child an Irish name at all with the pettiness on this thread.

This. My Irish-named son spent many years growing up outside Ireland and people managed. No major problems.

What surname are you going to give her? Will she attend local schools and grow up fluent in Portuguese?

If you are settled in Portugal and your child is going to grow up there, I would use a name that works well in Portuguese, which probably rules out an Irish name with the authentic spelling. I would use Niamh as a middle name instead.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Just give her an easier middle name and she can use that for minor daily things like making restaurant reservations.

I really don't recommend deciding her names on this kind of basis; being known by one name "sometimes" and a completely different name "sometimes" is the sort of thing that ends in administrative chaos (like turning up at the airport and realizing that your company has booked your airline ticket in the wrong name etc. etc.).

Stick with the Irish spelling or what is the point in having the Irish name which is lovely. Another lovely Irish name do not hear so much of now is Aisling. People will ask about her name and the spelling but that does not have to be a negative thing and in school etc am sure lots of others with names that are not familiar and people will pick it up easy. Do not change the spelling of Niamh.

Hey OP. I was very much in the same position as you. I have an Irish husband, live in a foreign country and love the name Niamh but spelling/pronunciation would be an issue. I saw all the mumsnet posts that were very anti Neve spelling but in the end we decided that it would make our baby's life much easier to spell it that way. I don't always think UK posters understand how unfamiliar the rest of the world is with Irish names. My husband was more for the Neve spelling than I was actually as he has seen how many of his friends with Irish names had difficulty in Australia with spelling and pronunciation. Anyway, my baby is now 2 and I don't regret spelling it the Neve way at all. It would be nice if Niamh was more well known here but it just isn't. Oh and for the record, there are two ways of saying Neve. My husband and all of his family (Galway) say Niamh as one syllable (N-eve).

I worked with a Niamh in France and everyone even after correcting called Nee-am. So I’m not sure people will quickly pick it up like others say. It will likely be an issue but some handle it better than others

I have a Neve. We’re not Irish and similarly have non-English speaking family and weren’t keen on Niamh. Not ever had any issues with spelling or pronunciation.

@AncientBallerina , Honestly you all need to lighten up and stop being so professionally offended about pronunciation of Irish names.

Look at the history of how the irish were treated, and how their language was treated before making such accusations. Same goes for the scottish and the welsh.

Using a name but modifying the spelling and/or pronunciation offends us for a reason - it's offensive.

Names get modified, for example, Niamh tends to be said as Neev now. It's not evolving a name, it's changing it. Take Caitlin - you'd probably struggle now to not get the Katelyn pronunciation.

I just can't get my head around why someone would take a name from another language/culture, mispronounce or misspell it but say something like 'her name is Katelynn, it's irish'. It's not and it's naff.

I'm pretty sure nobody says "her name is Katelynn, it's Irish" because I don't think anyone actually thinks of it as an Irish name; it's generally thought of as just one of the "lynn/lin/lyn/leine" names, like Madeleine, Carolyn, Marilyn etc! I think it's time to face the fact that this is not an Irish name these days.

OP, are you going to give this child your husband's surname? Most bicultural families I know tend to try and balance the two cultures with one being reflected in the surname and the other being favored in the given name. I think Niamh Irishsurname risks sounding like overkill in a child who has two cultures and is growing up in Portugal. If your husband's surname is likely to be pronounced without too many errors in Portugal, I'd go for that, and then pick a first name that is primarily about your British and Portuguese sides. I think Niamh would be a lovely middle name.

@Kokeshi123 , I'm pretty sure they do. Caitlin and 'variations' was very popular about 20 years ago, and I know (the parents of) several.

Exactly this. The arrogance of some and the dismissal of those trying to preserve the Irish language is not nice to read. Sad to have to give a little history lesson in a topic on baby names.

Did you know that the speaking of the Irish language was banned by the British in ireland first of all in the Irish parliament and then in areas where the British ruled? The language was almost wiped out. The punishment for speaking Irish was jail time and beatings. Please have some respect for Irish language and culture. No problem with people using names but please respect the language.

There are different dialects across Ireland hence some variations in pronunciation across the different provinces. Nothing sinister about it and understood by all who speak the language.

@ColadhSamh , thanks.

Keep it original. It's a beautiful name

We can always start with Wikipedia and Irish Central as examples. And we can bring in the Irish journalist Niamh Ní Hoireabhaird who wrote on this issue in the Guardian two months ago.

There are others, but no need to provide an exhaustive list. The point remains that there is no single central authority whatsoever you could point to that states only one specific version is completely correct.

Names change and evolve down the years in the short, medium and long terms.

It will no longer be Irish if you change the spelling.

That's like changing the name Miguel to Migwell and claiming it's still Spanish.

Niamh is gorgeous ❤️

I am Irish and I have a great love for the language - went to a Gaelscoil in the 70s. I am familiar with the Penal Laws. I’m a huge fan of Manchán Magan and the fascinating work he is doing. That’s how you keep the language alive, not haggling over the pronunciation of names.

I would normally say stick to the traditional spelling however have recently met a little girl through my work called Neve and it’s so much easier for her to spell out and write her name,