Spelling of an Irish name

[HRSC]

I am due to have my first baby (girl) in August. My husband is Irish and I am British and we live in Portugal (which is where I grew up and where the majority of my family lives).

We have decided to give the baby an Irish name and now we are discussing the spelling of the name. The name we’ve chosen in Niamh which is easy to say in Portuguese but is going to be minefield for anyone to try and read (or spell!).

Do we stick with the traditional Irish spelling and she has an issue whenever anyone tries to read or spell her name or do we go for a different spelling which can be read much more easily by non English speaking people? (Like Neve or Nieve etc)

We are not likely to ever move to Ireland, most likely we will stay in Portugal so this will be something that she will have to deal with for her whole life.

What are your opinions on this? My husband and I can’t decide.

*I have a name that Portuguese people struggle to read and it is a pain when I’m booking a restaurant or at at doctors appointments etc so I often just give my middle name which is more translatable when booking restaurants etc)

My husband is Irish and we have a Niamh. It's been fine. People only need to be told once and it's no big deal. Stick to the proper way of spelling!

But she will be "telling people once" for the rest of her life. It's such a pain in the neck. As I said, I did it til I was 40..then gave up.

Niamh is no longer such an unusual name that people in Portugal will find it impossible to remember... people nowadays are much more cosmopolitan. In your community family friends and school will all get it quickly. Name her something you love, and don't feel you have to compromise for imaginary future acquaintances.

I have an unusual name and my parents gave me an 'easy' first name but called me by my second name so I could change it readily. Actually it was never a problem and most people don't even know I have another name. Much more of a pain was having to explain that my first name on the school register, NHS appointment, passport etc wasn't actually what I thought of as my name!

With the variety of spellings for even traditional names, there are relatively few names these days that people invariably get right!

Either stick to the original spelling or choose another name, you will butcher it otherwise as there is no v in the irish language

Yeah maybe but it’s close to names like Caterina etc, so people can make a decent stab at it while Niamh Sorcha Seonadh Saoirse etc are unfathomable if you’re not Irish, which I am.

I had an Irish friend whose parents spelled it Katrina...

I have heard so many people say Catreeona which hurts my ears.

I wouldn't even think that Neve or Nieve was an anglicised version of Niamh. It's just all wrong to spell Niamh in that way.

@DownNative , Niamh, Neve, Naeve - all amounts to the same name, pronunciation and meaning. Not something for anyone to get bent out of shape over.
They don't though. The name is Niamh, and the pronunciation is Nee-uv (very short u in uv).
I'd say Neve as Neev and Naeve as Nayv.

In Hong Kong, the surname comes first, so Bruce Lee would have been Li Jun-fan or Lee Jun Fon, assuming the link is genuine. Bruce Lee – anniversary of his birth – 27 November 1940 | Chinese Exclusion Act Case Files (chineseexclusionfiles.com)

@AncientBallerina , a decent stab doesn't mean they'll get it right.
I don't know how to say Caitriona - my stab at it would be Kate-ree-ona based on Caitlin is said as Kate-Lyn by all the parents-of-Caitlin/Katelyn I know, and the scottish Catriona I know is Kat-ree-ona.

A quick search says it's Kat-REE-uh-na.

@AncientBallerina , Niamh Sorcha Seonadh Saoirse
I'm not Irish, and I'd say Nee'v, Sorkha , Shauna, See'rsha.
Quick search says Niamh correct, Sorcha sort of like Sarah but with a short ukh after the r, didn't find Seonadh, and Saoirse correct

You know a Scottish person who rhymes Catriona with Fiona? Oh, that hurts....

@elvislives2012 , People only need to be told once and it's no big deal.
But it's every person you meet who does not know how to say/spell the name.
Over a lifetime it's a lot of people.

@Piggywaspushed , well she says she's scottish. It probably hurts people's ears to heat Caitlin said as Katelyn too.

We are not likely to ever move to Ireland, most likely we will stay in Portugal so this will be something that she will have to deal with for her whole life.

I don’t follow your logic here. You will only have control of this during her childhood. Your child is presumably going to grow up bilingual and potentially with multiple citizenships. She is much more likely to live internationally, particularly within Anglophone countries, than her peers.

I don’t speak Portuguese but if the phonetic spelling to get the correct pronunciation is Nive then you are potentially storing up issues in her adulthood if she moves in contexts where that would be pronounced to rhyme with ‘five’. In your position I would personally use the Irish spelling.

No, they're simply alternative spellings of the same name, Niamh. They are separate from them even in an anglicised form. You'll find a lot of websites and resources dealing with the name Niamh state that NEE-av or NEEV are both correct as well as acceptable.

As for Bruce, if you're Chinese or a HongKonger, yes you'd write the surname first. But since you're a westerner it's considered proper to write in the western manner. Indeed, Bruce ended his letters to his wife, Linda and others as "Bruce Lee". But to his own family in HK would obviously revert to their practice.

Simply put, any name can be written, pronounced and spelled in a range of slightly different variants. There is actually no cultural authority that dictates only one way is correct.

Hence, Niamh, Neve and Naeve all exist as variants of the same name. Its a matter of personal preference amongst other considerations which one a person prefers. Originals usually lead to later variants for various reasons often influenced by cultural meetings between two or more with the native culture.

@IggyAce "Neve" is not an Irish name though. OP's husband is Irish hence choosing the name.

You'll find a lot of websites and resources dealing with the name Niamh state that NEE-av or NEEV are both correct as well as acceptable.

Oh well, if a lot of baby naming websites say so. They're always such a reliable source.

<eye roll emoji>

I'm sure it does but I doubt you'd get an Irish person saying Kaet-lyn! To be honest, I think Caitlin has become such a commonplace name that the new pronunciation is normalised and we have lost Kathleen as an equivalent name..

There are still lots of Catrionas in Scotland but very few beyond its borders so the usual Scottish pronunciation is used. I remain surprised that a Scot mispronounces it! Unless I misunderstood how you are saying she says it.

Ah, you're saying Irish based resources would be incorrect too....🥱

Even Saoirse has at least two accepted ways to pronounce which Irish people have been known to argue over.

It's not new. 🤦‍♂️

I think you have to accept there is often no one set form and that name variations occur frequently....

On all the other threads where you obsess over all things Irish you normally cite your sources.

@Piggywaspushed , she says it with a slight o,not like ee-OWN-a.

Ah, OK. Sounds about right.

@DownNative , says you.
I posted a link to the BC, and it contradicted what you claimed.

If you are claiming that it's ok to call a baby Neve and say it's irish, then don't be surprised if people disagree with you.

You'll find a lot of websites and resources dealing with the name Niamh state that NEE-av or NEEV are both correct as well as acceptable.

Neev isn't correct in Irish @DownNative but it is used in Ireland by lots of people because lots of people in Ireland don't speak Irish very well. Therefore it is acceptable there.

I wouldn’t make your child’s life difficult. DH cousin has called his daughter Saoirse they live in Geneva. When we visited recently not a single teacher pronounced in correctly and DH can’t remember either! I can’t spell it either without checking several times.

it’s such a pretty babe, just give it her as a middle one .

Stick to the original spelling or maybe pick another name. Niamh is a beautiful name please don’t deface it (like the English did with everything else Irish)