A sister for Seren

[PensionPuzzle]

Have found out this weekend that DC2 is another little girl. We already have Seren, DP has Welsh heritage without being truly Welsh and we are in England.
I think my shortlist is quite a random mix of Cerys (don't like Carys so much) or Elin for another easy Welsh name, or Charlotte or Lucy.
DP has his heart set on a really Welsh name that I really don't like and he got to pick DD's name so I've vetoed it but it would actually work as a middle name with either Charlotte or Lucy. We aren't too worried about middle names and won't have to worry about family names being used as there's too many women to keep them all happy 😂 Surname is two syllables and sounds fine with all four of my choices.

Any thoughts to help me narrow it down?

I thought it might be. Eye ris is much nicer than Eh ris.

@TatianaBis, Ey-riss. The Ey is short.

Eh = Ey as in hey. I’m saying Eye ris is nicer.

Sorry, cross-posted there.

The Ey is about the same length as eye, and the R is rolled. So it's more like Iris than Ay-ris

The length is not the issue but the pronunciation. It’s either ey or eye. I like eye not not ey.

Heulwen! Sunshine and a star!

@TatianaBis, Iris is nicer. The Ey bit said in the English way is wrong.

Ey-ris isn't quite it, but it's hard to convey sounds that you don't get in a language.

Heulwen won't work outside a Welsh-speaking environment.

I love the name Seren.
Angharad, Bronwyn, Or maybe something with a Celtic nod but not Welsh like Demelza

@butwhatcanwedo, not Bronwyn. It's a misspelt version of Bronwen, and the -wyn ending suggests it is a boy's name.

@MangosteenSoda

I’m confused now because I didn’t think Seren and Elin rhymed?! I like them both (the way I’m pronouncing them!).

They def don’t in welsh but probably would when pronounced by english person

Heulwen is very old lady IMO

Menna?

As said above, Eirys is an old Welsh word for comely or fair, not a Cymrufied version of Iris (although I can understand why that would be a natural conclusion upon hearing the name.) It's in Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru.

@Frazzled2207

Heulwen is very old lady IMO

Menna?

Yes, but the Heulwen’s I know have always been lovely, sunny and warm like the name 😀

Caru? Not Welsh but friend who is has DD called caru - told me it's pronounced Carrie and means love.

Yeah I think maybe not so much directly rhyming (but Seren is definitely more towards Sehrun round here) but maybe the strong E in the first syllable and the N ending they sound similar rather than actively rhyming even in an English accent.

This has turned out to be a fascinating journey through Welsh names, we still haven't picked one but that almost seems secondary now to this really interesting thread!

I think we're wasting our time. @SilentPanic.

Bronwyn and Meredith come up on nearly every welsh name thread. Why?

I've only seen Eirys as a misspelling of Iris, but know 2 young women called Eiry

I think that anglicised pronunciations of welsh names are grim.

Agree about mispronunciations hurting the ears.

I compromised on both DCs names as I knew MIL would always mangle them and I would grow to dislike her version. She still managed to turn DDs much simpler (to my ears) name into a right old dog’s breakfast. Interestingly, DD is now at university in England, where nobody seems to have trouble with her name. I do note that younger people can be very respectful and observant of correct pronunciation- however tricky - once advised.

@Ostagazuzulum

Caru? Not Welsh but friend who is has DD called caru - told me it's pronounced Carrie and means love.

Here we go.

A typical example of the suggestions we get on here.
Sorry @Ostagazuzulum, you are only going by your friend's DD's namer, but it is a ridiculous suggestion.

Caru is a verb, is not pronounced Carrie and is not a name. It is potentially insulting. If I saw that as a name, I'd think that the poor mite was named after how it was conceived.

Ii do hope that your friend's DD is Cari.

Mabli?
Delyth?
Eira?

Angharad - there's no G in it, the Ng is a letter not two letters and you don't sound the g. It isn't Ang-GAR-ad or god forbid, Ann Garrud

There is a G sound in Angharad, but it is very subtle. The number of times I or DD have tried to explain the ng sound to people who aren’t Welsh. We have given up. There is simply no point... 🙄

We used to tell them say ‘Hang’, then drop the H ‘’Ang’, now make the G sound in the back of your throat, don’t say it but hold onto it and say H. Some give it a good try, others can’t be arsed. DD’s MIL of 10 years would still rather complain about “stupid Welsh names” than make any real effort. She calls DD Ang - as in the shortened form of Angela (because it’s easier for the poor little, confused cherub). Yet her DS (my SIL) pronounces it perfectly.

And no it it definately not Ann-Garad or Anger-ad!

My name is Sian. The number of people - 99% of them English - who tell me my name is spelt wrong. There is definately an R in Sian see... 🤔

@ThisMarleyIsNotALabrador, There really is no G sound in Angharad.

The ng does not have an even slightly subtle g in it, back of the throat or not. The ng goes straight into the H. The ngh combination is tricky.

It definitely doesn't have an N in it either - It doesn't start with An.

If you want to sound it with a g, fair enough, but that's not how it is said in Welsh.

Your DD's MIL is a "hen 'sguthan wirion".

Wow, just wow. @KirstenBlest

Congratulations for emulating all the issues with certain posters on Mumsnet

So, here we go. My friend is highly educated has a phd not that it's hugely relevant. Her daughter is called CARU not cari. Caru is 22 years old so she's had the name for a while. My friend is born and bred Welsh. Never lived anywhere else, dad is Welsh. Both very patriotic both speak Welsh. I know her very well through previous work. I can assure you no one I know Welsh or not is offended or insulted by caru being called Caru. I'm obviously not Welsh so wouldn't know to be offended but anyone that's Welsh has never been offended. Incidentally Caru also primarily speaks Welsh. If it's a verb then fine, people chose to call their children all sorts of things now and it's their children and their choice. Not for anyone to start bleeting that it's ridiculous and offensive. In my
Line of work you wouldn't believe the names I come across, some raise eyebrows but it's e parents choice. Your post was ott, judgmental, condescending. I'm more insulted by your tone than someone using a verb as a name

In the nicest possible way, possibly
Your time would be better used climbing down from your pedestal and giving your head a wobble than posting on Mumsnet. It was a harmless suggestion and maybe your response could have been guidance as to your view of it rather than full on judgmental outrage.

Right I'm off to buy a goldfish and think of a lovely verb word to name it with.

I’m Welsh lol! I agree. There is no actual G sound but it is there in a very subtle, guttural, manner. Almost silent. But is there once you say the H which is definately there but most people omit. Otherwise Angharad becomes Ann-Harad - “Anarrad”.

What you mean there is no N? Which part of Wales are you from? How would you pronounce Angharad? I’m SW.

Yes she certainly is. DD refers to her as “buwch ddiog” as in, “Buwch ddiog is on the way. Wish me luck”.

@Ostagazuzulum, Wow just wow yourself.
If you think that "to love" is a suitable name, then I don't think we are on the same wavelength. Bye.

Dippity?