Irish names help!

[nothingseasy]

Hiya,
I'm calling out to all Irish speakers please.

I want to call my baby Ayveen In Irish. I've established from other threads that it's not Aoibheann or Aoibhinn or anything beginning with Aoi as this makes an ee sound. However nobody can conclusively say how it should be spelled.

I'd like to know what letters (diphthong/triphthong) make the aye/ay sound I am looking for. Do they exist in Irish?

Alternatives I've seen are

Éabhaoin
Éimhín
Aibhín

I personally favour the Aibhín but does ai in Irish make the sound ay?

Please help it's driving me mad!!

We are living in England and I want to keep a connection to my Irish heritage so I want an Irish name. We have trawled through them all and this is the only one we liked so when we found out it wasn't even said right we were devastated.

Please don't tell me not to bother with an Irish name in England or that I shouldn't give it an Irish name because they will have trouble e.t.c.

Help resolving the spelling is really all I am after.

Thank you x

@lizzieant what Pedersen says is oíbhin is from oíb +finn. Oíb however is spelt lots of ways you can see in dil.ie and it looks as if some were the sound we now write as aobh, yes. Although adding Finn to the end would influence the final consonant, your mouth doesn't anticipate it in the initial vowel quite so much as with just one syllable.

It may be. There are ways of proving it.

Thanks SeanChailleach.

Not gonna lie, I am Irish and maybe it's the two glasses of wine I have to celebrate St Patrick's Day but I am really struggling to work out what you are trying to achieve here. I do think you are in danger of ending up with a name that neither the Irish or the English know how to pronounce, particularly in England if you end up with a fada in the spelling. As you have agreed that most names are made up, just spell it however you want and tell everybody how to pronounce it when they inevitably ask!

And yes Éibhlinn is possibly from aebglan which appears in dil.ie in the list under oíb. Formed by adding adding -ghlinn (clean, bright, pure) instead of -fhinn.

That's interesting, SeanChailleach.

So, the op could use Aoibhín/Aoibhinn/Aoibheann for Aiveen as the standard spelling. Or use an alternative, personalised version as Éibhaoin, Éibhín, Aebhín.

Omg so much info! I'll try get back to everyone today. I've been a bit busier today but I will reply x

@SeanChailleach I'm not sure I'm following you with the examples you gave of words in Irish with Aoi sounding like ay.

I looked them up and they seem to be said with a ee sound. For example aois..

forvo.com/word/aois/

www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/Aois

www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/aoibh

@spookycookies

I appreciate your input but I'm looking for constructive help. I'm enjoying learning about words and where they come from and how they are pronounced. Please stop telling me not to use this name. I don't want negative input thank you very much.

Thank you @Apileofballyhoo

A new one to add to the mix!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this issue!

Can I ask how you'd pronounce Éabhaín? Would it be like ay-veen? Is this an "established" name, meaning little eve?

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

"If we reach consensus on this, we should put it up as a pinned tweet on this board"

For sure! I'll tell everyone far and wide! 😆

@SeanChailleach

"It would be great if there was a really detailed definitive Irish name dictionary, wouldn't it?"

Omg yes! Maybe you should write one 😆 you seem to have the most language knowledge. Do you know if any books that might help?

There are a few mentions of Éibhín as a girl's name when you look it up on Google.

Interestingly, Séamus Heaney had a granddaughter called Aibhín. He wrote a poem called, 'A Kite for Aibhín'. This is closer to the anglicised form 'Aiveen'.

There was a debate on here about the pronunciation of Aoibheann in 2014. I wasn't around for it :)

@LizzieAnt

"Sorry OP, I don't know if we're much help to you!"

You are! And tbh even if we can't reach a conclusion, I'm enjoying the conversation and hearing all the variations and opinions,it's nice to talk about the Irish language x

Thanks at @unfortunateevents

Gosh I'd live a glass of wine! Not long now 😆

I hear what your saying and maybe your right. I'd like to pick some sort of made up version that causes the least amount of controversy though😆

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

"So, the op could use Aoibhín/Aoibhinn/Aoibheann for Aiveen as the standard spelling. Or use an alternative, personalised version as Éibhaoin, Éibhín, Aebhín."

I would also like to know your thoughts @SeanChailleach if I could use any then it would make it a lot easier 😆

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

"Interestingly, Séamus Heaney had a granddaughter called Aibhín. He wrote a poem called, 'A Kite for Aibhín'. This is closer to the anglicised form 'Aiveen'.

There was a debate on here about the pronunciation of Aoibheann in 2014. I wasn't around for it :)"

Yes I was going to mention that, I was hoping that would be the spelling originally but lots seem to think that would be ah-veen?

I've read all the online debates! That's what got me into a pickle in the first place 😳😳🙈🙈😳😆😆

Kinda wish I never looked but also, like I said, I like learning about this stuff too.

The thing is, even if Ayveen was an old way of pronouncing the name, shouldn't the spelling have changed over the centuries to reflect this? Varying spellings would have diverged to reflect different pronunciations. In modern Irish the pronunciation Ay-veen makes no sense when coupled with the spelling Aoibheann/Aoibhinn. Moreover, the word aoibheann is pronounced something like 'eevan' in every dialect of modern Irish afaik.

Maybe the Ayveen pronunciation is a 'throwback', a way of saying the name in the past as SeanChailleach suggests, a spoken version of the name passed down the generations. Or maybe it's a more modern mistake, possibly based on some confusion with another name, perhaps even one with similar origins. I'm not sure OP, and because of the uncertainty I think I'd stick with a spelling that makes sense in modern Irish - there are many suggestions upthread. Or else I'd do more research to find an answer if I could

That book would be great all right! Best of luck with everything.

I'm with Lizzie, I think it's more likely to be a mistake and Aoibheann (Ayveen) probably has sisters Sorcha (soresha) and Caitlin (Kate Lynn).

Thanks @MindyStClaire and @LizzieAnt

I think I agree and I'm really coming round to Éibhín or Aibhín. I think Éibhín is probably more "correct" but I keep thinking about that poem by Heaney which is nice and I suppose it would give the name some sort of meaning. It be nice to read it to her and for her to see her name written into something kinda we'll known.

It's nice to know the history of a word and why it may have gotten muddled up but like u said if it doesn't read right for the language now then it's not going to make sense.

@MindyStClaire

I'm with Lizzie, I think it's more likely to be a mistake and Aoibheann (Ayveen) probably has sisters Sorcha (soresha) and Caitlin (Kate Lynn).

That's my take on it, too. I actually think Aoibheann (pronounced as standard in my Munster Irish) is a nice name, but I would never have considered it for my child (who turned out to be DS anyway) purely because of other people assuming it was pronounced Ayveen.

(Is anyone else now completely incapable of thinking of the word 'Ayveen' and its various cognates as any kind of normal word after reading this thread? Every possible spelling now looks deeply peculiar to me, and I suspect I will be paralysed next time I meet an Aoibheann-Ayveen.

Yes @Ovine
We only found out it was a girl 3 days ago and I think, just because of the name issue I was secretly hoping for a boy. I really wanted Tadhg or lochlainn. Very much more "standard" names.

I know the pronunciation for Aoibheann as in the actual Irish word "go haoibheann" Eaven or Eeven is nice but it's just a personal thing. There are so many Eve variations out there atm and I didn't want it to get shortened to eve which can happen with names.

I'm sure she'll grow up and get sick of it and probably just change it to an English spelling after all my hard work 🤣😂

Congratulations! DS was going to be Sadhbh if he'd been a girl, and England, where we were living at the time, was just going to have to deal.

My tuppence for what it's worth :)

I would strongly consider Aibhín. It matches the pronunciation that you like, it's short and fairly uncomplicated from a spelling point of view. Living in England too, it should be straightforward for people to grasp. 'Siobhán' is quite well known, I think. It's not too dissimilar. I think it's lovely to have the Heaney poem as a reference too. I think it's a pretty name!

Yes, I think I'll be tongue-tied the next time I meet an Aoibheann

That was in response to Ovine, by the way.