Irish names help!

[nothingseasy]

Hiya,
I'm calling out to all Irish speakers please.

I want to call my baby Ayveen In Irish. I've established from other threads that it's not Aoibheann or Aoibhinn or anything beginning with Aoi as this makes an ee sound. However nobody can conclusively say how it should be spelled.

I'd like to know what letters (diphthong/triphthong) make the aye/ay sound I am looking for. Do they exist in Irish?

Alternatives I've seen are

Éabhaoin
Éimhín
Aibhín

I personally favour the Aibhín but does ai in Irish make the sound ay?

Please help it's driving me mad!!

We are living in England and I want to keep a connection to my Irish heritage so I want an Irish name. We have trawled through them all and this is the only one we liked so when we found out it wasn't even said right we were devastated.

Please don't tell me not to bother with an Irish name in England or that I shouldn't give it an Irish name because they will have trouble e.t.c.

Help resolving the spelling is really all I am after.

Thank you x

The proper way to spell it is Aoibheann.

Í also gives an e sound in Irish, but not sure how you'd replace it.

As an Irish speaker, I'd say give her the proper name/spelling. Don't butcher it to make it fit english pronunciation. People learn to pronounce and spell plenty of foreign language names. Why not this?

Congrats on your pregnancy 😊 hope all goes well with your birth.

She wants the name to sound like Ayveen though, so Aoibheann won't work, none of the vowel sounds are right.

Thanks for replying, being from Ireland I also thought this was the case but from lots and lots of research, I've pretty much established Aoi is an ee sound only. Aoife=ee-fa Aoibh=Eve Saoirse= seer-sha there are lots of threads with people explaining that there are no examples in the Irish language where those letters Aoi make the sound ay.
Unfortunately we Irish don't know our language very well and have just adopted the incorrect pronunciation.
I know many many Irish ppl do pronounce it Ay-veen when spelled Aoibheann and that's fine for them but personally I really want this to be phonetically and grammatically correct.

If there is a correct way to spell it in Irish, I would definitely prefer to have it in Irish.

Yes you’re right OP it’s definitely not Aoibheann - that’s an annoying mistake which is unfortunately really common. It would also be really tricky for English people so a nightmare all round.

I know an Aibhín.

I've seen ai (as in Aidan and Ailis) described as an Anglicised spelling here before. Ai as in Aisling would be how it's pronounced in Irish? But I do like it too.

Personally my best guess for what you want would be Éabhín, but someone will be along shortly, I'm sure.

No, not ‘Ai’ for ‘any’, OP, but actually, well done on not doing the ‘Aoibheann pronounced Ayveen in contravention of all Irish rules of pronunciation’ thing.

I mean, you’re sort of inventing a name in that you’re trying to find a not-incorrect orthography, but think I agree with @ILoveStickers, that I’d go with Éabhín.

Or Éabhaoin.

Why would you give your kid a name you don't even know. This is so nonsensical. And if you can't even spell it how do you expect your child to cope. You are burdening them with a name no one will ever be able to pronounce or spell. I'm not against Irish names/spellings but since you don't even know how it's spelled I think it's selfish.

You've basically inventing a name and are trying to back fill a seriously difficult spelling. Just spell it phonetically for the country your child will grow up in as even if they move to Ireland people will still be more familiar with the anglicised spelling than your made up one.

@spookycookies

You've basically inventing a name and are trying to back fill a seriously difficult spelling. Just spell it phonetically for the country your child will grow up in as even if they move to Ireland people will still be more familiar with the anglicised spelling than your made up one.

Alas, should the OP’s child move to Ireland, she’s likely to encounter the annoyingly-prevalent ‘Aoibheann’, which is actually pronounced ‘Even’.

I think that's harsh, @spookycookies. This is a name people use in Ireland, but they spell it in a way that OP doesn't want to use. She doesn't like the usual spelling because it's not conforming to Irish spelling rules. That's fair!

It's not really a name that is used in England, or spelled a certain way in England, so there's no obvious "English" spelling to use.

@ILoveStickers

I think that's harsh, *@spookycookies. This is* a name people use in Ireland, but they spell it in a way that OP doesn't want to use. She doesn't like the usual spelling because it's not conforming to Irish spelling rules. That's fair!

It's not really a name that is used in England, or spelled a certain way in England, so there's no obvious "English" spelling to use.

Not really. That's like saying I like the name Kate but I'm going to spell it keight because I like it better. It's either a name with a spelling or it's not. If it is spell it right. If it's not chose an easier spelling to not burden your child with a name that absolutely no one can spell. Even the parents and a forum full of people.

Eibhín?

@spookycookies, it’s more like there being a name that is pronounced ‘Kate’, but randomly spelled ‘Andrew’ by many people even though this makes no sense phonetically (presumably based on a misunderstanding or mispronunciation that somehow became widespread, like Caitlín being pronounced ‘Kate-lynne’), and someone wanting to find an orthographically correct way of writing the sounds of ‘Kate’.

Ayveen written as Aoibheann is particularly irritating because it gets not one but two vowel clusters completely wrong.

[quote Neap]@spookycookies, it’s more like there being a name that is pronounced ‘Kate’, but randomly spelled ‘Andrew’ by many people even though this makes no sense phonetically (presumably based on a misunderstanding or mispronunciation that somehow became widespread, like Caitlín being pronounced ‘Kate-lynne’), and someone wanting to find an orthographically correct way of writing the sounds of ‘Kate’.

Ayveen written as Aoibheann is particularly irritating because it gets not one but two vowel clusters completely wrong.[/quote]
I accept your premise but then why try to find a spelling that works phonetically in a language for a country in which you don't live. If you don't want to spell it how it's supposed to be spelt then find an easy way to spell it rather than the hardest possible way.

Lovely bit in Catastrophe, the chap failing to pronounce his daughter's name, Muirrean.

@spookycookies, for one thing, there is no ‘established’ spelling, because it’s usually written (wrongly) as Aoibheann. In Irish, there would be a number of different possible ways of writing the sounds that make up ‘Ayveen’.

I mean, I don’t disagree with you in that it’s not a name I would ever use, in or out of Ireland, because every time I come across it I have to wonder whether I’m going to pronounce it (correctly) as ‘Even’, given that it’s very likely the owner of the name pronounces it ‘Ayveen’, because that’s how her parents taught her to pronounce it, and it seems like a needless complication.

@Footle

Lovely bit in Catastrophe, the chap failing to pronounce his daughter's name, Muirrean.

That’s not at all similar. Muireann is an actual standard name with one (perfectly straightforward) pronunciation.

Dia's Muire duit agus Pádraig, a OP.

Is é "Aoibheann" an t-ainm. Mar seo:
Dia duit, a hAoibhinn! ( Gairmeach)
Leabhair Aoibhinn. (Ginideach)

One name, two forms. Often in Ireland the vocative/genitive form is spoken but the nominative written when in English.

The pronunciation of both forms is different in the dialects.

In Munster inn is said with a long nasalised i. In Ulster it's a short i without nasal sound. I do about Conamara.

The aoi is various sounds unspellable in English. Reducing it to ee is a Learner Irish simplification. The i is merely a glide vowel to facilitate the slender consonant. It's sad when we allow the shoes of writing to crush the soft feet of the spoken language.

@spookycookies
Thank you but I would really appreciate only constructive reply's to try and solve the issue. All names are made up because language is made up but there are rules and I would like to make sure I am following them.

Thank you @Neap and @ILoveStickers

So you both think Éabhín? Are you both Irish speakers?

Thanks @SeanChailleach

I'm not usually a stickler for set rules of language and I appreciate fluidity however from what I've read there is no movement with the Aoi at the beginning.

The ending for me is more variable than the beginning sound. It's really the beginning sound I am after.

Do you have any ideas for this ay sound? In your opinion would Éabhín or Aibhín work?

I know there is no meaning behind these "new" spellings, as there is with Aoibheann as it's actually a spoken word in Irish with a lovely meaning(I just wish I liked the sound as a name)

At the end of the day we have our hearts set on this name. It is a name used a lot in Ireland so it has become a name like it or not.
If there was a more "correct" or true to the language way of spelling it, maybe people would choose to spell it that way instead of using the incorrect way and that's what I am trying to find a consensus on.
The Irish language and name is important to me as a connection to home. I've had to give up everything linked to home living here, which is my choice but I still line for home like all Irish people do and I just want something for Irish for my baby.

In Irish there are names like Eábha =Ava so there must be a agreed way of spelling Ay-veen.

I'm not an Irish speaker, not at all - just someone with a vague interest.

Now I think of it, Éabhín is no good, because you have a one side of the bh and í the other, which doesn't work.

I was basing it on Éabha, but that's a mistake on my part.

Éibhín might work?

Yes, Éabhín is no good. I'd go with Éibhínn or Éabhaíonn myself. But it is a made up name so I'd steer clear personally. Aoibheann as Ayveen is a personal bugbear and I'd want to avoid all association! Nothing wrong with an Irish name with an Irish spelling (DD1 has one mentioned on this thread) but Ayveen isn't either, regardless of how it's spelled.

Or Éimhín? It's a male Saint - but it is a real Irish name, with a history, if that's important to you.