Sorcha... pronunciations?

[pinkytheshrinky]

I know that for the most part this name is pronounced Sor-kha but I met a nice older lady years ago who was a Sor-sha - I do really like this name and it is top of the list for my new dc. What do you think?

I do also have two other dds with Irish names who's spellings have been Anglicised so I do have form for this....

How do you pronounce it out of interest?

Wow - some Irish people do like to get themelves into a right wee tizz.

I will repeat, in Scotland every Sorcha I have met is pronounced Sorsha and I didn't know there was any other way.

I am sure the Scots have been well oppressed by the English in the past (who hasn't!) but getting all aggressive over a pronounciation of a name makes you look silly and spoiling for a fight in an empty room. Have some whisky and chill!

Don't you mean whiskey, ithaka?

LillianGish we pronounce it the way that you don't like.

Oh no! The Scots language polis will be after me!

'Charles has been changed from the French pronunciation but the spelling has not changed... Sacha is another name which has been imported but the spelling has not changed. Charlotte has remained with the soft sha at the beginning - things are adapted to suit.'

You previously complained that names have been Irishised so why not Anglicised, and I posted to illustrate how this has happened in Irish (with pronunciation and spelling both changed). Now you are illogically again referring to the Anglicisation of names as if that is some sort of fair comparison that makes what you are doing ok. There is clearly a gap where your apprehension of the meaning of words and the function of logic should be. (This explains why you insist on pronouncing it not just with the SHA but with the SORE mispronunciation as the first syllable too and why there are others in the same boat)

'but actually does everyone need to understand the language and history and culture of the country they pick a bloody name from? '

Just the language would be fine, or actually, you wouldn't need to understand the language, just accept that it is different from yours and subject to different pronunciation rules. What you have done is treat a name as if it were nothing more than a combination of letters whose pronunciation is up for grabs, and assert that anyone's opinion as to pronunciation is as good as anyone else's as long as there are enough ignorant opinions to constitute a quorum.

But I don't understand this at all. The examples I have cited show that the rules are variable when adapting names. I am sure this rule is variable in all languages. I was just trying to show that names borrowed from other languages with the CH in have different pronunciations.

Math - your whole argument has been about the end of the word and now it is about both syllables. My Celtic name book does say that the first syllable is pronounced Sor - I am also aware it is pronounced Sur and I am sure there are more subtle versions of that sound too. I know this must have a regional variation as most vowel sounds in most languages.

And again someone from Scotland is saying it is the standard pronunciation there - It matters not how many words you keep throwing at me, there is precedence here - you might not like it but there seem to be more people saying it in the way I prefer than the various traditional pronunciations.

If this pronunciation is so very illogical, why are there so many?

Species, thanks for your input. I really don't feel I am going to fuck up her life by giving her this name. I still think it is a beautiful name, your daughter is lucky to have such a pretty name. I might be misguided but really the level of vitriol thrown at me is way too much. What is really unpleasant is this is about a real baby, my daughter to be and being so horribly bitchy about it really takes the shine of a name that I have waited 10 years to use. I love it (and the person who was called this) very much and people are just trying to make as much shit stick to dissuade me. It is nasty and I am flabbergasted by how mean people have been to be honest.

Yes, it's certainly been a heated debate....I couldn't believe it when I saw my DD's name in MN most active topics, I had to have a look! Kind of wish I hadn't now tbh, as some comments have upset me as well. Hope your DD loves her name as much as you do

Species - I don't have any preference, I was just curious. I'm absolutely astonished by how strongly everyone feels about this. Who would have known? That's my point really - I wouldn't have consulted anyone on the names I gave to my dcs for fear of getting such a reaction. I think having had such a reaction it would be hard to feel the same about the name.

Yes it is surprising how hurtful it is actually, I hadn't quite bargained for that. She will love it, my children all like their names, like the fact that they are the only one in their school with those names and people always comment positively on them and are very complimentary.

Jesus, this is weird. I thought it was a troll post for the first few pages.

I find it pretty hilarious though as my name's Sorcha and my top boys' name at the minute is Seoirse :D Think I posted a thread about it. If I use it and ever meet someone who calls me by my son's name I'll be so bloody confused...

can you direct me to that thread sorchatallulah? what did others think?

and how do you pronounce yours?

As far as I remember, nobody pointed out the similarity. I hadn't really thought about it until now! I pronounce my name the Irish way though, and Seoirse is pretty much the "Sorsha" you want. Actually, a search for "Seoirse" on Facebook is bringing up a brave few more girls than boys - what about going for that spelling? It's more Shor-sha than Sor-sha but I'm sure a lot of people barely pronounce the h. A lot of the Irish puritans here might get angry at the fact it's a "boys' name" but at least it's spelt right, they can't complain there :P And like I said, seems to be getting a lot more common for girls. Hopefully not so common it wipes out the boys' name, though...

No I prefer it my way (and goodness only knows I have had time to think about it) I don't want the sh sound at the beginning or give her a boys name. I am keen to avoid the Irish spelling as well as it makes things more difficult. And when you say the Irish way - which one? Several versions have been suggested here and is your peculiar to a region?

LillianGish I didn't mean to sound arsey, sorry .

Ooh sorry I thought you were using the Irish spelling as well... If you're not then I don't see what everyone's getting all up in arms about :S The strictly correct pronunciation would be the surr-a-kha one that people kept mentioning - no fada on the O so it isn't sore, it's more sir/sur. The middle syllable is there to soften the word basically - there's another "common" name, Donnchadh (someone I work with is called this and goes by "Denis" on the phone!) that does this too. When there are 3 consonants in a row (I think that's the rule) then you add in a vowel sound (is it called a schwah or something?) so that it flows better. The ch (which I've written as "kha") is the "ch" in loch, and gets anglicised as a k sound or as an h - another girl in my work gets called Sur-a-ha which in a Belfast accent just sounds like Sarah sometimes! But yeah, only my mum really calls me Surr-a-kha, most people just call me Sorka or Surka. I've noticed that Sorka is a more "manly" nickname and my male friends seem to lean towards that one where as people who actually realise I'm female go for Surka :P But yeah, my whole point is that I'm mostly known by a shortened form, but I use the full one in formal situations and the like. Remember as well, in Irish accents the name doesn't sound anywhere near as harsh as you might be reading it - even when I go for Sorka, English people on the phone always think I'm saying Surka - we seem to soften the vowel sounds naturally. Another difference is that we pronounce the "R" in words/names and that's why when I lived in England I stuck to sur-a-kha so that other people would actually pronounce the R as well haha. I've totally gone off on a tangent here, sorry for being so boring!

My pronunciation isn't really region-specific, but I do live in an Irish-speaking area of Belfast. Although I just spent ten years in a very British/Unionist towns and got called all sorts. I was too polite and quiet to correct them as well. I still have mates who think I'm called Saoirse...

I love sorcha with a sha and would have pronounced it that way at first glance without realising it was incorrect. alternative spelling so that it can be pronounced with a sha? x

Ooh it did get a bit mad in here!

I do agree though, ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies... you had made up your mind and that's fair enough, but why waste everyone's time by asking a question that you didn't want to hear an answer to that conflicted with your own opinion?

I can't understand for the life of me why people give their children difficult to pronounce/contentious names, it seems very self-serving to me, but you clearly like this name that you have in your head and are convinced your child will feel the same and that is enough for you. No need to talk about it on here at all!

Sorry Maryz, I didn't mean I thought Seoirse was the Irish spelling of Sorcha! I'm on the side of good in this thing :) I was suggesting Seoirse as an alternative because it's the closet name I can think of to what the OP wants that's actually a real name. Obviously I'd prefer she went for Sorcha pronounced Sorcha but I know it's the pronunciation she's fallen for moreso than the spelling.

Someone once tried to tell me that Seoirse was the Irish version of Sarah - looks like a lot of people get these names all mixed up. I just relayed this thread to the girl I live with and she's never even heard of Sorcha pronounced as Seoirse and thought I was pronouncing Saoirse wrongly :P I don't know if that's a good thing or not!

Sorry for the double-post, but OP, what about Sorcia? Or even Sorscha?

Thanks Sorcha and Maryz - Really I am not trying to convince anyone Irish, I am just explaining my line of thinking re. the precedences etc that is all. I am happy with my decision as I am sure all the mothers of caitlins and conors etc are. I am interested in the Scottish aspect though because there is something there I am sure.

I am not unhappy with the answers at all - it has all been very interesting actually but the insults and nastiness have been surprising. What I find really insidious is the fact that people (although entitled to their opinion) have said well, you are ruining your dd's life saddling her with a bastardised name. That is so horrible and although when people get in a corner and want to win an argument it is absolutely uncalled for.

Interesting to note that SorchaTallulah has been called all sorts of names, just going to show that there are so many variations and even with the correct spelling and pronunciation in the country of origin - I wonder if all Irish names are like this? I don't know.. I wonder if that is because this is traditional or if it is a consequence of so much traditional language being disturbed for so many generations? Don't know but it is interesting.

The point is also my dd is being named after someone too with this spelling and this pronunciation so it is not only about calling someone a sound I prefer but naming her after someone quite spectacular.

Logically I suppose it should be Sortia - but i hate it too!

I like the spelling I have chosen as it would take away from the reason I have chosen the name really.